…and Probably Knit a Sock

Q: How can you tell The Polyamorous Misanthrope has visited FWB?

A: She actually writes a damn article for once!

One of the significant problems, as I’ve mentioned more than once, about writing about polyamory is that the interesting stuff IS about problems. As Tolkien once wrote, “Now it is a strange thing, but things that are good to have and days that are good to spend are soon told about, and not much to listen to; while things that are uncomfortable, palpitating, and even gruesome, may make a good tale, and take a deal of telling anyway.”

I’m not trying to imply my life is perfect and my relationships are perfect, because that doesn’t exist. But good? Oh yes, very good.

The Prince was talking about this recently. He’s a comic book artist and was promoting his comic at a con (some of the characters are poly and some are not in the story), and was talking with some fellow artists. At one point in the conversation, they were discussing blanket hogging, and somehow my boyfriend in another state came up. Why, I do not know. He doesn’t steal blankets. But anyway, the subject came up, and he person The Prince was talking to commented, “Oh, you guys are poly.” Then, she went right on talking.

I love this. It was casual. No automatic assumption that The Prince was on the prowl and was going to try to get into someone’s pants. The conversation just went on.

I’d love to see a world where this is more usual. While The Prince and I are about as “out” as you can be without waving an actual flag, I do still wince when I find myself stumbling over myself when asked in the office, “What are you going to be doing this weekend?”

Which is absurd, of course. It’s no secret at all. My direct supervisor not only knows I’m poly, but knows my ex-spouses, and we originally met because he was friends with a former boyfriend. His boss’ boss knows I lived in a group marriage. This blog is on my damn’ resume!

And still, I choke. I’m a little afraid. Not a lot, but enough to make me hesitate to name the relationship, and use the word “friends” instead of something more exact when I say I am going on a trip to visit someone.

I’m not afraid of losing my job, obviously. (Wouldn’t that be a hilarious legal can of worms? You wanna fire me for being poly? Well, it was on my resume, so as far as due diligence, I think that’s on you, cupcake). I am afraid of assumptions. I’m afraid people would assume I’m after their spouses. I’m afraid of assumption of availability that just plain doesn’t exist in ANY office environment for me. (No matter how hot someone I am working with is. Strict rule. Even stricter when I am HIS supervisor.)

And even when everyone behaves themselves (which in justice, my co-workers do), I am concerned it’s the possible Awkward Tension that would just be a complication where I don’t want one.

I feel kind of guilty about it. In terms of low risk for being out and poly, I’m it. My kids are grown, I’m out to my extended family, I’m not at risk of losing my job about it and I live in about as sexually relaxed area of the country as is possible without actually being able to see the Golden Gate Bridge. So as a poly writer, if not full activist, I kind of feel like I am falling down on the job here for you guys. So many of you, for various reasons, would find it dangerous to be out. I know darn well seeing some rather average middle-aged woman doing her thing and being poly openly does help with the normalization process in people’s minds. Which, in turn, helps make it safer for others to do the same.

On the other hand, I’ve been to parties where all anyone wants to do is do the Poly Display, and it gets tedious. God knows I don’t want to do it in an office. I’m poly, but I’m also a swimmer, a knitter, a writer, a mother, a gamer, a cook, a teacher, a seamstress <hem!> <hem!> and other things. I’m a whole person, and while yes, poly is a big part of my life, it’s not the sole focus.

Which is probably why I choke a little. Poly isn’t well-known enough that I can drop, “This weekend? I’m going down to visit my boyfriend and his family.” like I can “This weekend? I downloaded this game I’m going to play ALL weekend, and probably knit a sock.”

I wanna disclose without explaining. And the reality, we ain’t there yet.

Don’t Patronize Me

I am in a poly relationship. My boyfriend identifies as poly, I identify as… well, I don’t really identify in any specific way. I am just as comfortable inside of monogamous relationships as I am inside of poly ones. I meet each relationship with each person as its own thing, whether there are other people involved or not.

The majority of my relationships have been monogamous, and I have a history of telling people not to assume I’ll sleep with them because I’m bi, so most people see me as a monogamous person.

My boyfriend is also dating one of my friends, who has a primary boyfriend. When he and I started dating, it cause a lot of… awkwardness. I didn’t think it would, but my friend started getting all extra concerned, and kinda patronizing about anything poly towards me. She sees me as monogamous, and is concerned that I’m not getting my needs met in a poly relationship. When I once suggested writing a response to an article writer who was having difficulties understanding poly relationships, she told me it wasn’t my place, because I wasn’t poly. She has also expressed concerns over my son… one time asking me if I had thought about how my poly relationship would affect him.

It’s very frustrating to me. I don’t like people assuming they know what’s best for me, or what’s going on with me, or needing constant reassurance that I’m alright, or that I’m taking care of myself. It’s one thing to check in every once in a while, but completely another to not believe the responses give.

I don’t know how to talk to her about this. She gets so tied up in her identity as poly that I’m afraid anything I say to her will put her on the defensive. Any advice?

A spray bottle filled with water, so you can shoot  every time she does that?  Works wonders on my cat…

The reality is that this is pretty patronizing.  But you can handle it without too much of a confrontation.

I am not entirely sure why she would feel the need to police your contact with another writer.  That’s easy.  Do as you please.  You don’t actually have to filter your outside communication through her.  You’re an adult.

The constant checking in and then not believing the responses?  That’s a tough one, and boy can it be irritating.  Concern can be concern, but it can also be concern-trolling and gaslighting.  The way to handle it is not to worry about defensiveness, but simply to express yourself.

“Yes, I’ve considered the whole poly and kid thing, and I’ve made my decisions based on what I think is best for myself and son.  Please don’t ask me about this again.”

“You asked me how I felt.  I expressed what I was feeling.  However, in terms of whether or not I am taking care of myself, I am an adult and my personal care is my responsibility.  I appreciate you checking in, but let’s try something.  If I have an issue, I will do my best to bring it up in a timely manner, so that we can discuss it, and we can just leave off the whole maintenance thing and enjoy being friends.”

Then you get to find out the real motivation is concern or control.  If it’s about control, it’ll go from zero to freakout in one second flat.



More Than Two: The Review

“Polyamory is not the next wave in human evolution.  Nor is is more enlightened, more spiritual, more progressive or more advanced than monogamy.  Polyamorous people are not less jealous, more compassionate or better at communicating than monogamists.” – More Than Two

I’ve spent the last few weeks reading More Than Two by Eve Rickert and Franklin Veaux, and then making less than helpful cryptic comments about the book.

I hope that my faithful Facebook followers have gathered from my incredibly subtle comments that I approve of the book.  Yes, I do like More Than Two.  While the body of polyamory literature tends to be good, I think the message and presentation of More Than Two is my favorite.


Well, that’s exactly it. The authors take the time to explain the whys and wherefores of polyamory very well.  They’re grounded in the real and the proveable. They explain the principles behind their thoughts.  Then they do a great thing. At the end of each chapter are several questions to ask yourself and think about.   I love this part the best.  Sure, sure, you can read the book and get a great deal out of it without these questions, but if you really want to examine yourself, your relationships and truly understand what you’re about and what you want in relationships, this is an amazing guide to do so.

This book explains what polyamory is, helps you think about whether or not polyamory is for you, breaks down the skills necessary for a poly relationship (and in reality, they’re pretty similar to the skills required for any successful relationship), then discusses some of the problems encountered in polyamory, what to expect and gives some suggestions for coping.

Polyamory tends to value honesty, and I’m pleased to say that like any really great polyamory book, the authors don’t spare themselves.  They talk about their screwups, what they learned from them and discuss their struggles as well as their triumphs.  

And while I did read this book to support a friend, I also want to point out that More Than Two is on my re-read and annotate the heck out of list.   I already have about twenty-odd notes and thoughts about the text that I’m still in the process of analyzing.  Friends, this one makes you think.  Any any book that encourages you to think clearly about emotionally charged subjects like romantic relationships can only be a positive.

More Than Two is available for pre-order here. Go ahead.  You will be glad you did.

Participating in Cheating

I am a woman who is a solo polyamorist.  I experienced a painful break-up with a FWB over a year ago, and I took it very hard (I have never taken this long to get over a break-up before), so I’ve been a poly without any relationships for a long time.  Over the past six months or so, I’ve become tired of my loneliness and feeling ready to get back in the love game – but I am not interested in a “primary type” of relationship.  I like being solo and having slightly more casual parameters to my relationships, though that doesn’t mean I don’t want them to be loving and caring.  I just value my alone time, too

Anyway, now that I have been putting the “available” vibe on, it seems I keep attracting married men who would be cheating on their spouses. I don’t know what to do.

I used to date married men years ago, when I was much younger.  I know what it’s like, and I used to justify what I was doing in many ways.  But now that I practice poly – you know, everything is supposed to be above board and totally honest.  However, I can’t help but wonder if it really is so bad to be someone’s mistress, in certain circumstances.  I am lonely and an introvert.  I don’t meet available guys very often, and have never been attracted to anyone at my local poly group’s gatherings.  I want a lover/casual relationship, not a boyfriend to be closely intertwined in my life, so dating someone that I can only see once every week or two works fine for me.  If I have a couple of casual partners like that, it would be my version of poly heaven.  If I’m also a relationship anarchist, is my partner’s choice to cheat really my responsibility?  Aren’t relationships supposed to be on our own terms?

If staying in an unhappy marriage would hurt him, and coming clean about affairs or wanting to open the marriage would hurt her, what is to be done?  There are two guys I cannot stop thinking about.  I know they both want to have affairs with me.  Doing so fits into my life, and I can’t be sure that their wives would be hurt by their cheating, can I?  I kissed one of them, and got naked and fooled around with the other (no intercourse).  I know that there are many married, monogamous wives who assume their husbands will eventually cheat and would rather not know for sure.  It seems a relationship is starting with the one I got naked with, but we’re still getting to know each other.

I would like to get some logical perspectives from other poly peeps on being involved with a cheater, on both sides – meaning other than the usual poly view that all cheaters are as evil as Hitler.  I am in a quandary because of both societal expectations surrounding marriage, and the influence of poly dogma over the last four years since I embraced polyamory.  I feel that it is important to make my choices based on reason and my own ethics, rather than what others tell me I should do.  I just would like some insights from others that perhaps I haven’t yet seen.  Thanks, in advance, for any words of wisdom you can offer.

If you’re asking for compassion, yeah, that’s all yours. I can summon that.

Approval? Logical permission to participate in cheating?

No. I’m sure that a reader or two of mine would be able to do so, but I’m going to tell you now, that we’d be coming from very different ethical systems.

This isn’t about open=good and cheating=Hitler, honest no kidding.

This is about ethics and who and what you are as a human being, and who you want to be. Where are your principles based? Really, what’s ethically important to you? What are the principles on which base your actions? This is less about polyamory and what sort of human being you are going to consciously choose to be.

No-one can do this for you, and there are going to be people who will choose to judge you harshly no matter what choice you make. There really are people in this world who, because I do not believe in monogamy, consider me so morally bankrupt that I’m worthy of nothing more than a death by torture. That’s not hyperbole, but is a real thing you can find in news stories less than six months old.

So, what are you doing? What do you want to be about and why? Think hard about it, because this is a big question.

You asked if your partner’s choice to cheat is your responsibility. Of course it isn’t. But I don’t give a damn how introverted you are (and I’m pretty far out there on the introvert scale, myself) you don’t live in a vacuum. The behavior I am most ashamed of in my life, the worst choices I have ever made, were when I allowed myself to be intimately involved with people whose ethical standards were not in harmony with the person I wanted to be. No, it’s not anyone else’s fault I chose to behave the way I did. That’s on me, forever and always. But I can tell you that it is astronomically easier to live up to your own standards when you surround yourself with people who also share those values.

Now, I’ve gone all into values and stuff, and that’s really important. But here’s my reason for not participating in cheating. I’ve done it in the past and I’ve decided I don’t want to. Sure, sure, lofty principles and all, but there’s another, utterly base and selfish reason I don’t.

If you get involved with a cheater, you already have proof this person is utterly comfortable lying to get what he wants, and that his desires in the moment are more important than any long-term commitment. He’s also proven he will not negotiate openly and honestly in a difficult or emotionally risky situation, or he would have tried to have a discussion with his wife about open relationships. If he wants something from you, he will lie to you to get it. If there’s information you think you should have that would be painful or risky to give you, you won’t get it. He doesn’t think you’re special enough to treat you differently in the long run. He’s already proven that. I’m chicken. That sort of thinking scares the bajeebers out of me, so I don’t go there.

Communication, hierarchies and poly headaches

Daniel Cardoso was kind enough to submit this guest column. Check it out:

So, let me just say this – reading through the new “More than Two” book, by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert had/has/is having the interesting effect of making me think about two things:


  1. All the stuff I’ve screwed up during the past 10 years, along with all the growing up and changing that it brought about;
  2. All the stuff that I’ve actually got ‘right’… mostly due to number 1.

But there’s one main thing where I feel like I’ve done a one-eighty: hierarchies and couple privilege. I started out all worried about protecting “the couple” and screwing over some people because of that. And, in hindsight, it was very terribly shitty of me to do so.

Over the years, I’ve also been placed in that other unfortunate position of being the spare part, or disposable somehow, which made me understand more clearly, and more painfully, that other position. And you know what’s worse? It’s when you don’t even know, nor have any reasonable expectation, of being in that position. When everything is going along all nice and dandy, and all of a sudden you see yourself being placed within a non-pre-existing hierarchy, all of a sudden, without communication nor negotiation. (My personal experience tells me that is especially common when the other person and myself have a committed and involved relationship, but not a specifically romantic or “boy/girlfriend”-type thing. YMMV.) 

Another thing that I’ve found out over the years is that sometimes you have different levels of attachment, or different wills/needs when it comes to relating to different people. As in, you’re not categorizing person A over person B, but rather you feel feeling X for person A, and feeling Y for person B, or you don’t feel the drive to invest so much into person A as into person B; or you simply do not receive as much investment from person A than from person B and that fits what you need from both relationships… And that is totally different, and feels different, and is not about imposing hierarchies, but about different people finding how they mesh with each other.


It doesn’t really matter if you’re indeed following the second scenario if you shut people out of the communicative processes happening. If you are making decisions that will affect all of your relationships, and even when it makes sense to prioritize person A’s opinion over B’s opinion (imagine that the topic is about moving into another house, and person A cohabits with you, while person B does not and does not want to…), try your damndest to include everybody in the conversation. Even if it’s just a way for you to check out how people are feeling, even if it’s just to give people a way to express themselves rather than presenting them with something post facto.

You know why? 

Because when you don’t do it, you’re turning situation two, above, into situation one. You’re using a descriptive separation of proximality or intensity or connection or whathaveyou, into the prescriptive power imbalances that come with inbuilt privileges.

People are… you know… people.

Listening to people you care about should not be an afterthought. Should not be a side note into the decision-making process. Should not be something done out of charity or obligation. Even if your decision is clear and unambiguous, consult with others, ask for feedback, check in with others – because they’re there under the assumption that you care, that you want them there, that there’s meaning in the connection you have with them, regardless of how intense it is or isn’t, in itself or compared to others.

Talk. Do not assume. Do not hide. Do not try to rationalize the power imbalances into oblivion: fight them! Stand up to yourself, to the responsibilities you’ve taken towards other people, and be an active participant in the effort of giving everyone an even voice, even when different positions require the prioritization of some views over others.

The TL;DR version is: fuck hierarchies.

Communication, hierarchies and poly head-aches

© 2014, Daniel Cardoso

Used by permission


Daniel Cardoso is a PhD student in the field of Communication Sciences, at the Social and Human Sciences Faculty of the New University of Lisbon. His Master is in the same field and institution, and deals with Polyamory. He is part of the Portuguese team of the EU Kids Online research group since 2007. He has taken part in several publicly-financed research projects on gender and media as a research assistant. He is part of the editorial board of the Revista (in)visível journal. He teaches at the Lusophone University of Humanities and Technologies, and is a feminist and an activist in the area of queer rights, LGBT and polyamory. His personal website is www.danielscardoso.net

Marriage: Not a Legal Sanction of Romance

I’m reading a review copy of More Than Two* by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert, and being a book about polyamory, of course it discusses non-conventional marriage. I know you’re thinking, “Of course it discusses non-conventional marriage. It’s about people humping lots of other people like bunnies, and marriage is about monogamy!”

Not quite.

One of the amazing things it discusses is the nature of marriage, partnership, and romance – about how and when they’re intertwined in our mental landscape, and the nature of partnerships.

Humans form partnerships. It’s at the very core of our nature and how we evolved. I think, however, that we’re tripping up badly in our more recent view of marriage. There seems to be this idea, and I’m sorry to say at least in part it comes from some of the rhetoric behind legalizing gay marriage, that marriage is about the legal sanction of a romantic/sexual relationship.

Maybe it’s evolving that way, but it wasn’t historically the point. More to the point, the idea of legally sanctioning feelings and personal relationships makes me twitch, so I kinda hope that’s not where things are going.

Historically, marriage was about property – its preservation, its maintenance and its growth. It was about producing another generation to give that property to. If this looks like marriage was really more for the upper classes, in many ways it was. However, even in stratified societies, social mobility through marriage was usually the best option for a workaround.

If you’re squinting at this and asking about love, I don’t blame you. While yes, humans are humans, and goodness me yes, we fall in love, that wasn’t part of the contract. All that courtly love, stuff? It wasn’t supposed to be sexual and it sure as shit wasn’t part of being married! (The Duchess of Aquitaine was one of its strongest proponents, and if you want a strife-filled political marriage, look no further than Henry II and Eleanor) Oh sure, it got sexual, humans being humans and all. Moreover, they even had a special descriptive for the relationship – adulterous. You were putting grave doubts on successions, baby, when you did something like that. It could and did cause actual, no-kidding wars.

One of the huge problems with marriage, and it’s only changed legally in the last century, is that the entire paradigm revolves around women as livestock to produce heirs. Oh, it gets prettied up, and many humans love the humans they live with as well as their children, but the law wasn’t that way.

If you think I have profound issues with the legal precedents and concepts around marriage, you’re right. I do. Yes, I’m married, and like being married. That’s where we run into problems. Forming deep, intimate partnerships is the way humans are built. We’re social creatures and we form partnerships – not necessarily romantic or sexual (though often so), but we do best in our intimate networks of various sorts.

The fundamental concepts behind marriage have not really caught up well with several recent concepts:

  • Women as humans – meaning that the commodity of sex and its packaging and ownership within a marriage is going away.
  • Birth Control – separating our mental concepts of sex from procreative activities. Did this help down the idea of gay marriage because sex /= procreation in a large majority of the population’s mental landscape? You bet!
  • Being able to simultaneously earn a living and rear a child. That’s very new, indeed, for anyone but the moneyed and educated few to be able to pull off with anywhere near the success we with our dishwashers, washing machines, and ready-made clothing could do.

Why do I bring this up?

People are arguing for poly marriage. For those that want the legal protections? I get it. I don’t get the same tax breaks saving for my daughter’s college that I do for my son’s. And yeah, talk about a mild and privileged example. Hospitals can and do bar people without legal relationships from seeing relatives or making decisions about care. Living wills and care directives help, but in the heat of the moment, you’re at the mercy of understanding medical professionals that one hopes are truly understanding and not power-hungry sociopaths who found a socially acceptable channel for their tendencies.

But do not ever make the mistake of calling it a legal recognition of one’s passion. A) It’s never what the legalities of marriage were about and B) even the most loving marriage is totally a business relationship as well. I suspect the successful ones are the ones smart enough not to forget it.


* If you have the cash, Mama Java wants you to go ahead and click on the link to pre-order the book. This is sound, practical, and thoughtful relationship advice. In fact, like any truly good poly advice, the relationship and personal advice works well for monogamy and even non-romantic relationships. Oh, and it’s an entertaining read. Knowing the tendency to copious verbiage on the part of one of the authors, I’m guessing it took at least a whip and chair on the part of the other author to get it so clearly and fluidly on topic. J Well, it amuses me to visualize the whip and chair, anyway.

Trust and Self-Control

I am in a non-monogamous relationship with my partner of about 18 months. We are both inexperienced in that we have both only ever had monogamous relationships before and have only been open for about 6 months now. My previous monogamous relationships did not end well and I have been cheated on, though my partner has said he has never been unfaithful in any of his previous monogamous relationships. My partner and I are still figuring out our boundaries. We started exploring by going out on dates together and a few months ago my partner found himself attracted to someone that I do not feel an attraction for. We have discussed this and he has been out on a couple of dates with this person in order to get to know them better. I have not been out on a date with anyone without my partner, but am comfortable and open to the possibility of dating another. We have discussed being transparent and open about our dates, and when he has told me about his dates I find myself reacting poorly by making snarky comments and then feeling awful about myself afterward when initially I felt comfortable discussing the situation/our boundaries and have told my partner to go have fun.

My partner has been as patient as he can be, but we have talked about it and my actions are pushing him away. I’m not entirely sure why I act the way I do when I know that I trust him, we love each other and he is not doing anything that we haven’t already discussed prior to a date with another person. We haven’t been intimate with anyone else outside of our relationship, but my partner has kissed others.

I feel like part of my reaction is a feeling of jealousy and my insecurities/baggage from my previous unfaithful “monogamous” partners. I know in my rational brain that my current partner is not lying to me and in fact is being completely transparent with me about everything, but I have this sort of knee-jerk reaction and act poorly when he’s trying to have a conversation with me about a date which of course, leaves us both feeling bad. I’m not sure how to deal with these feelings in a healthy way that will not harm my relationship and I don’t know if I could be completely comfortable with a don’t ask/don’t tell policy.

Are there ways to get over feelings of insecurity/jealousy or am I just not cut out for non-monogamy?


I’m not seeing anything that has me wincing or concerned that you’re fundamentally not suited for non-monogamy. And by the way, “I just don’t want monogamy” is a completely valid reason for not doing it, though then you need to find a partner who feels the same way about it.

It does seem like there are trust concerns, at least because you’re dealing with a historical trust problem with partners.

So, let’s step outside of romantic relationships for a minute. I think a huge mistake we tend to make when dealing with romantic relationships is to set them aside and give them different rules than other relationships. At a very basic level, you don’t need to. For instance, you do have non-romantic relationships. Do you have any people you really trust? Who are they? Why do you trust them?

Once you get to that point, you’ll have a starting point in what creates trust for you. When you know that, compare it to your partner’s behaviors. Do you see a common thread? If so, does it make you feel more relaxed?

If it doesn’t, while feelings are not facts, if you keep getting a niggling feeling you shouldn’t be trusting, re-examine the facts. Did you miss something? Yeah, I know. It’s subtle and that’s a pain. Something that little voice is telling you something important, and sometimes you’re reacting to the past and the present. I wish there were an easy way to tell the difference.

Thing is, that takes a lot of digging and self-exploration. You have a slightly more immediate problem – the snark when you feel insecure. Oh, do the personal work, but I’m telling you that this kind of thing takes a long time. While you’re doing that, practice a habit.


Wait before you speak. I am not going to say you should not show your feelings or express what’s on your mind. A real relationship is utterly impossible if you don’t know what’s going on in the heads of the people you love and they don’t know what’s going on in your head. But expressing your emotions has a range. A three year old who can’t play a video game she is excited about playing might throw herself on the floor, or cry. That’s even developmentally appropriate, though we do try to channel her feelings towards self-control. An adult who is really excited about playing a video game and is thwarted is still going to feel upset. It’s normal and developmentally appropriate to feel uncomfortable feelings when thwarted (surprise, being a self-responsible adult doesn’t mean you don’t feel stuff!). It’s what you do in the face of it. And adult would mention that it is her turn, say that she doesn’t like it when she is denied her turn. It’s expressing the same feelings as the kid, but the adult has a much bigger toolbox to deal. Thank goodness, or I’d be never be able to make a living. I’ve read many an email, thought (or even said), “You !()#$($#*&, why are you being such a !)#)$#(%$* about this issue?” I really do walk away and then think about how I want to respond.

Learning to choose how you’re going to express your feelings is tough, too. I recommend trying to notice your feelings as much as possible, then asking yourself, “How do I really want to express this, and is it better to express it now or wait?” Notice I’m not telling you to be “good” and always be convenient. I’m saying to choose consciously by being as aware in the moment as you can be.

I get wanting to rant or be highly emotive. I totally get the snark. All I can say is do your best to pick your moments.

And while you’re doing all that, keep in mind to constantly ask yourself, “Why and when do I want to trust. What makes it easy? When is it hard? Am I taking an appropriate risk here, or am I really making excuses?”

Yes, that’s a fine line. There are times when I’ve given the advice, “Don’t bother. This isn’t likely to work for you.” In your case, I think you’d do fine trying for the self-analysis.


So, legal poly marriage is something that many people in the community are pushing for. 

I get it.   You want all the rights and protections for all your partners that you could have with a single, legal spouse.

I’m not actually in favor of it.  At least not yet.  There are issues that we need to address first before it gets Mama Java’s seal of approval.  You could argue that I’m saying it because I had a group marriage fail.

Damn right that’s why I am saying it.  Any sort of monogamy+ one size fits all marriage for OLQ would have been a gut-wrenching nightmare when we broke up.  Our legal system hasn’t even caught up with the realities of modern marriage among the monogamous, so I’ll never be in favor of group marriage without a serious revamp.

I’d like to see the health care system ironed out so it doesn’t revolve around the Paterfamilias being a Company Man with benefits for his household. (Yes, women get benefits, but that’s what the paradigm revolved around and it’s not working well)

I’d like to see how they’re going to handle issues of parenting and responsibility, group ownership of property, and most especially how divorce will be handled.  I see a lot of theory thrown out about these matters should be with almost zero references to people who have lived through these issues and what they wish the legal system could or couldn’t have done.

So, I need to know.  If you want poly marriage, why do you want it, how do you think it will benefit you and your family and what do you expect it should do for you that has nothing to do with the very real and human need for party and ceremony for big life events? (Yes, of course that’s a real emotional need, but that doesn’t need a law passed)

Extra points for people who have lived through group marriages for five years or more — still going or breaking up.