I tend to celebrate the First of May in a couple of ways. First, I listen to this non-worksafe song, which I encourage you to buy for your very own at this link. It’s only a buck, and it’s fun!
Then I read Spring Running. It always moved me pretty profoundly, even when I was too young for such thoughts.
Just my thang to celebrate Spring and all it means. *grin* At least, all I’m going to discuss in detail in a public blog… ;)
I reposted Secondary Clarity on Tumblr yesterday, and got a very interesting response. I thought it was actually worth a column. The original post was mostly the following graphic written by a couple of buddies of mine who have been poly a looonnnngg time and have Learned Stuff.
After posting it, I was asked:
As a person in a monogamous marriage that may at some point move to being poly but isn’t sure if poly will work for the relationship, do you have any advice for approaching things without falling afoul of douchebaggery?
This is a good and valid question, but buddy, it opens up one heck of a bag o’ noodly appendages, let me tell you what!
Understand this discussion is not coming from a person who went from monogamy to polyamory. No, this isn’t about pride in Gold Star Polyamory or any of that idiotic nonsense. It’s an admission that I genuinely do not know what happily opening up a relationship looks like. I’ve never observed such a thing close hand and haven’t the faintest idea what it looks like.
What I do know, is what a good relationship looks like. What I do know is how to treat human beings.
Most of the problems illustrated on this card revolve around treating people as things. It revolves around treating them as objects for gratification. That’s not what love looks like, but I’m sure you know that. So let’s analyze all of these points and the mindset they come from, and see if doing so will come up with strategies on how to avoid them. I could just as easily invoke the Wheaton Rule1 for all of them, but that’d make for a short column.
Sweet mother of mercy, people, relationships are inconvenient.
While there is a significant difference between genuine needs and being a damned vampire, the reality is that you have the right to relationships that are mutually supportive. Hellfire, I have friends I could call at two in the morning for help if I had to. It would really bother me to think I didn’t have the right to do so with a partner!
So, if you’re not comfortable with giving the person the same concern you’d give a friend, possibly poly, though certainly the relationship, isn’t right for you.
Respect and ass-kissing are not the same thing. Respect is pretty simple. Are you giving them human dignity? Are you willing to have an actual conversation where you listen to what is said as well as express your own thoughts? Courtesy is a great place to start, of course, but human feelings are human feelings.
I’m just gonna refer you to Jurassic Park Secondary. But… Safer sex and maybe some surgery on the part of guys who don’t want to sire more children is a wise move.
Before you do the deed, certainly this is worth a conversation.
This one really blew me away. If you’re not okay with someone else loving your partner, you are soooo not into polyamory. Just wow.
I have certainly been in a situation where someone’s behavior in the relationship circles has been problematic to the point where it was extremely serious. In the face of that, I’m uncomfortable with asking a partner to dump another partner.
If there’s a problem, address it. For instance, “Honey, while I’m cool with your boyfriend coming over and having dinner, he’s bringing his daughter, her three sons and their wives, and then they’re all sleeping in the living room about three times a week. While I don’t want to be ungracious, we’re getting to the point that they’re almost living here. I do not want all of them to move in, so I need to know what you want so we can talk about it and come to an agreement.”
Have I ever had someone try to break up a partner and I? Sorta… But I can say in all honesty, that if someone else can “take away” a partner, buy ‘em flowers. They’ve done you a favor.
The problem with this one is that it seems to be the secondary’s job to make up for someone else’s insecurity. I mean, really? That’s obnoxious when you think about it. “Hey, we’re going have all this great sex, but my partner feels insecure about it, so you have to pretend you’re not into me.”
*Snerk* Though if someone said that to me… It would kind of solve the problem, because I wouldn’t feel very valued and would make some choices on my own.
No one in any relationship worth the name should ever feel the need to stay in their room, making no noise and pretending they don’t exist. If they’re worth having as partners, they’re worth being involved in your life.
It’s a bit rich to require someone to stay in their room, making no noise, and pretending they don’t exist and then punish them for having a life outside of you, ya know. Poly’s at least in part about people being able to form relationships as they wish, yes?
No-one likes to be a dirty little secret. If you have a job that would be in danger from being poly, well… You’ve got some priority decisions to make. But make ‘em before you start playing with people’s hearts.
Most of this boils down to not treating HUMAN BEINGS as disposable experiments. You’d think this would be obvious, but apparently there’s a lot of people in this world who really treat other as commodities.
Don’t be that person.
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1 Don’t be a dick
I ran across some utter nimrod spouting the “Consent is HARRRD” whine in a new and gloriously idiotic way. The assertion?
“Women like it when a man takes charge, therefore they don’t like being asked for their consent. It turns them off.”
*facepalm* Dewd, are you really that unimaginative an idiot? First off, not all women like that, any more than all men have a particular taste. If you run with that sort of script, chances are good you’re a mediocre lover at best. Treat your lovers as individuals and get to know personal quirks. I know this is radical and all, but in theory, you’re doing something kinda intimate. Being intimate about it might just work.
Nevertheless, for the not insignificant fraction of people who do like to be dominated to a greater or lesser degree in bed, it still does not preclude consent. Without getting into too much TMI, I share the taste. I am also happily involved with a man who checks in frequently about what I like, don’t like, want, etc. This is not even close to a paradox. Don’t believe me?
You can turn it into a bit of a dominance game, if that’s your fancy. Whisper in your partner’s ear and insist on a description of what the partner wants. STOP whatever it is you’re doing and say, “If you want this, you’ve got to tell me you want it…”
Throw out the idea that asking and checking in is somehow a turnoff because the man isn’t “taking charge.” Not only is it nonsense, it’s unimaginative nonsense. Throw out the copout and use your brain.
This was an ask on my Tumblr, but I just had to repost it.
You bet I have some advice.
Don’t be a fucking idiot.
A) He’s a professor, for pity’s sake. Even if he is not YOUR professor, that’s a bit of an ethics violation.
B) You have no reason in the world to believe he’s poly.
There’s literally millions of suitable men in the world that would be great for you. Pass this one by.
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* Rule One is “Don’t be a fucking idiot.”
Jessica Burde, polyamorous writer, has released a nice little book on polyamory and pregnancy.
This is a good, clearly-written guide to considering pregnancy, contraception and the baby talks within a polyamorous relationship. I especially like its practicality and the way that it does not encourage wishful thinking. Babies and parenting are a big deal and she does not gloss over it. The book, as you might guess by the title, does deal with pregnancy and childbirth more than contraception (as it should), dealing with sensitive sensibility to the unique challenges a polyamorous family might face when deciding to have a baby. Not only that, it has good suggestions about what to do with them!
If you’re of child-bearing age, whether you want kids or not, it’s a good read to get going discussing those things you need to before you do the deed. You can get the Polyamory on Purpose Guide to Polyamory and Pregnancy in either paperback or electronic format.
Me: Good morning, son. Pop quiz. What constitutes consent?
Son: A clear, unambiguous yes.
Me: What does unambiguous mean?
Son: Loud and clear with no fudging.
Me: Good. Do you know why I am asking you this?
Son: Because of that scene in Pirate Radio?
Me: (Blinks a minute, because my mind was on the Stubenville case, not the movie we watched where there was a scene where a young man was encouraged to switch with a guy who the girl HAD consented to in pitch dark. I made it clear that was NOT consent) No, I was asking because some high school students raped a girl who was passed out drunk, got convicted and there was some idiotic sympathy for them because they claimed not to know what rape is.
Son: I get it. Look her in the eye and ask if she wants to.
Me: Good. What if she wants to and you’re not into it? What do you do?
Son: Say no. Get out of the situation if pushed.
Me: Rock. You’ve got it. What if she’s drunk?
Son: She can’t consent.
Me: What if she’s twelve?
Son: Ew! Of course she can’t consent!
Me: What if she’s sixteen (my son is almost eighteen).
Son: (spotting a trick question) Uh, she can consent?
Me: Morally? Most likely. But legally? Depends on the jurisdiction after you turn eighteen. In ours, it’s 16. In your grandparents state, it’s 18. ‘Course you can do an end run around that after you turn eighteen and only date legal adults.
Society: But teaching about consent is HARRRD. You don’t UNDERSTAAANNNDD.
Me: Lying jerks.
*Based on an actual conversation I had with my son this morning. (Gender choices are based on the fact my son does play the game on the easiest setting).
I’m new to polyamoury and I guess I’m into the “kid in a candy store” phase. I’ve been calling it “balls to the wall poly” and “punch drunk Poly”…
I’m worried about my attentions, how to split them respectfully, what kind of etiquette I should be following, whether or not I should be having lots of sex (I’m having lots of sex!) or looking to avoid having lots of sex.
I’m socially kind of awkward but unconventionally somewhat attractive and I’ve had a fair amount of attention, some of them have only wanted sex but some have seemed to want more. I’m having trouble finding ways to be clear that don’t turn people off… that aren’t awkward. I suppose I’ll get used to it. But I don’t really know what I should be doing. Whether or not I should be more attentive to some people, less attentive to others.
I’ve always felt I was wired right for poly, and that I would slip into it very well. But I don’t know really what to be doing with myself. I’m not too worried about jealousy on my part… I’m worried about my insecurity about my worth, which has caused me to think that I mean nothing to others and… inadvertently hurt them by thinking I’m worthless… withdrawing too soon, etc.
First off, the “how much sex should I be having” is easy. I’m presuming safer sex practices. After that? As much as you and your partners want to without hurting anyone. Could be none, could be your only interest outside of making a living. That’s up to you and your clearly consenting partners.
Don’t worry about awkward. As long as you’ve got kind and respectful sorted out, you’re golden. This will mean stating clearly, “I’m polyamorous. I have <foo> number of partners.” It will turn some people off, and you know what? That’s good. You don’t want partners that are uncomfortable with or are not into polyamory.
If there is unspoken etiquette surrounding polyamorous relationships, I know nothing about it. Being honest, being kind, having appropriate boundaries and all that smack seems to cover it pretty well. When I’ve done all those things, stuff worked out well. When I haven’t, hilarity usually ensued.
When we’re dealing with attentiveness to partners, this is so easy it’ll blow your mind. Ask your partner(s). If you want to give them that much attention and can, then you do it and it’s awesome. If you can’t or don’t want to give a particular partner that much attention, then maybe y’all aren’t a great match and should give the relationship some thought.
The insecurity about your own worth? That’s an issue and a serious one. That’s definitely a short-cut to making decisions that’ll bite you in the ass. Work on that. While I’m all for having as much of the kind of sex you want to have (Ya! Sex!), I will also point out that you cannot fuck your way to good self-esteem. Neither is polyamory a game of “collect the genitals.”1 Your worth is not based on how many people want to have sex with you.
If it looks like I’m saying that most of polyamory revolves around getting to know partners well, loving them and being able to respond to their wants and needs while they respond to yours, you’re right. It’s about the humans and the individuals involved. It’s not that there aren’t general principles that work well in relationships. There are. But most of those principles involve getting to know the human beings, the real individuals involved rather than making a procrustean attempt to follow a specific set of rules.
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1 I wish I’d come up with that expression. I got it on Tumblr from a post that has since been deleted. Dammit.
Some years ago, I wrote an article called “Being Used.” It was about red flags in relationships, demands and whether or not you had a relationship or were being treated as a commodity.
I feel like I neglected to point some important things out.
The article is about demands. It’s about when you’re unhappy to be giving something, when someone misbehaves when asking for something. It’s not against giving in the first place. I don’t know if I made that sufficiently clear.
Let’s say you’re talking to a friend and she says, “Hey, I really like your car. Can I have it?”
You think, shrug, toss her the keys and say, “Sure. Enjoy.”
There is nothing in the world wrong with this transaction. The person asked. You thought, decided you were perfectly happy to give it and did so, feeling fine about it. It was your car. You could do what you want with it, after all. You start taking the bus and are happily using the time to read a novel on your way to work.
There’s nothing wrong with giving – even dramatic stuff like major amounts of time or resources, as long as you’re perfectly content to do so and feel good about it. (Mostly. I can’t think of a parent who doesn’t grumble at least internally cleaning up vomit at 2 in the morning when their child is sick, but for the most part a loving parent does it quite willingly).
What if the scenario went more like this?
“Hey, I like your car. Can I have it?”
“Nope. I like my car, too and I want to keep it.”
“But I need it to get to work!” she says.
“Can’t you take the bus?” you ask.
“No, I can’t walk that far because I’ve got joint problems. Besides the bus is on a weird schedule and I either get to work an hour early or fifteen minutes late and I’ll lose my job if I’m always late.”
“Woah, that sucks,” you say. “I can give you a ride sometimes, if you like. But I’m keeping my car.”
“You’re being mean! I need that car! How can you be so selfish? You can walk just fine and the bus schedule maps perfectly to your work schedule!”
You grumble and hand over the keys, not wanting to be mean and selfish, grinding your teeth every time you take the bus.
Notice the difference? It’s a problem only when you feel like it’s a problem. It’s a problem when you’re not okay with it. It’s a problem when you’re mistreated if you say no. It’s a problem if it interferes with what you want to do and you resent the demands.
Be giving, sure, if it makes you happy. Enjoy it. Just do your best to keep your boundaries and try not to let people guilt you into giving what you don’t want to give.
I had someone comment that an article I wrote on great polyamory relationships wasn’t poly-specific.
I agreed heartily. It wasn’t. You could have used the principles for a great monogamous relationship, a great friendship, or even used some of the principles for having good relationships with your parents or kids.
Rather than take that as a big criticism, I took it as a compliment. Why?
Friends, relationships, even ones with sex in them, aren’t sex-specific!
Treating people well, loving them, getting to understand them down into their bones… None of those things have a great deal to do with binkie-rubbing. It’s not that sex and romance aren’t important or wonderful (’cause they’re delightful!), but if you’re only capable of loving someone, knowing them well and treating them well if you’re fucking them (or intend to), you suck and are a rotten person.
But there’s a flip side to it. Ever given someone a free pass on crappy behavior you’d call a friend out on because of some mind-blowing sex or being insanely in love? I’m guessing if you’re over 25, you probably have. It’s probably because you’re giving the binkie-rubbing way too much importance. (We all do it at least once. It’s whether or not you learn from it that’s really important.)
Real relationship skills have almost nothing to do with sex or romance.
Not one of those things, and these are the basics that drive whether or not a relationship is good, has a damn thing to do with sex or romance at all, much less sex or romance with multiple people. They’re the same skills I apply to relating to anyone I care about.
Do you have any advice for a guy in a non-monogamous relationship who doesn’t know how to ask people out? I mean, I know how to—I’m in a relationship—but I have no experience in poly things. My ladyfriend has the advantage of other guys tending to be open to anything that leads to sex. That isn’t true on my side. Thanks!
Asking people out in a poly situation isn’t really substantially different from asking people out in a monogamous situation, so honestly, you’re already covered. What it sounds like you’re asking is how to avoid being told no.
You can’t. Sorry about that.
However, to cut down on the “no” ratio:
Leave off “cold calls” as they call them in the sales business. A 4% yes rate on a cold call is good, so that’s a lot of being shot down. Get to know people instead. Unless you want that as your strategy. You probably could contact 200 people on OKCupid and you’d likely get several dates. As a small business owner, I rely on that 4% cold call ratio to buy groceries for my kid, so I don’t know that it’s necessarily awful to get a date.
Hang out with poly people. I mean, seriously, most of the world at least tries to present as monogamous. You want to hang out with people who might be open to dating someone with a partner.
Be straightforward. You know from your monogamous dating experience and from your online reading that women really do, no kidding, like people with the guts to ask. We know it’s a risk. Many of us have asked people out, too, and been told no. Being willing and confident enough to take that risk does earn some attractiveness points to a lot of people.
