The Polyamorous Misanthrope » Ask the Misanthrope

Want to be valued? Value YOU!

Goddess of Java — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:07:23 +0000

I need advice.

My girl and I began exploring the “lifestyle” about 2 years ago. At some point mid way, I discovered that I was having nervousness block my performance, in my opinion because many encounters seemed rushed. I talked with my partner about doing solo dates, and she was very much against it. So I let go of it.

Meanwhile, my partner gets involved (solo) with a popular social club, and from her explanation it has really helped her in areas of being social, something she had been struggling with. She attended a larger event, held at a campground, and calls me to say she drank too much, and had been offered a spot to spend the night. She was approached by a male member of the group sexually, somehow he gets the opportunity to explain to her the group is full of swingers, and apparently sparks fly between the two of them. She asks me if she could have my blessing to have sex with him, and I agree to it.

I attend their next event to meet this gentleman, nice guy, apparently the woman seem to love him, and all of the sudden I start noticing that he and my girl are doing things like hugging/light kissing/and at one point hand-holding. That night she tells me they are going to sneak out into the woods, and tell her to have fun. After several hours they got back, and my mind had started getting restless.

Somehow I overlooked the fact this person had the potential of being a very frequent potential dating partner for her, so the next day I kindly explained how I felt to her, and that turned very nasty very fast, and she began threatening to end the relationship, but we reach some sort of simple agreement to lay it to rest until we are clear enough to deal with it in the future. Now I have not ever had a solo playmate, and I am not sure that it’s in my genes to be able to eventually achieve this.

I am starting to feel anxiety from this situation, I fear it’s going to spin out of control, will be left with over-exaggerated tokens of affection from her, and much less of her time, while feeling inadequate because I don’t believe I have what it takes to even find someone who would be interested in doing the same with me. I tried explaining this to her, but the results we the same. She feels I should have no problems what so ever, but I am just not in that space right now, and confusion had taken over in this relationship.

Thanks for reading, any advice or comments are greatly appreciated.

Shouldn’t have a problem, huh? Well, maybe it’d be better all around for everyone if you didn’t, but let’s accept for the moment that you do. Problems can be solved, so this is hardly a hopeless situation, but don’t let “should” get in the way for now. Don’t let anyone tell you how you should feel either.

It does sound like you’re feeling pretty insecure about your own attractiveness. That sucks. It’s beyond the scope of a single blog post to give you really useful, solid advice about how to overcome insecurity about oneself or one’s attractiveness, but I will give you a tiny, minor piece of advice that might be useful:

Be yourself just as hard as you can.

As a unique human being, what you really have to bring to the table in terms of a relationship is the unique human being that you are. Be that to the hilt.

You did not give a lot of detail about the conversation between the two of you “getting nasty fast” and your girlfriend threatening to leave the relationship, so unfortunately I can’t give much clear advice about that. I can think of a dozen reasons why it might have, but without more facts on hand, I can only give you some general advice.

Always tell the truth about how you feel
Don’t put up with emotional blackmail
Never agree to what you don’t want, but understand that sometimes these things can be dealbreakers. Ideally, it’s best to accept that outright.
You are allowed your feelings, but clinging to insecurity isn’t really helpful. If you feel insecure, work on that. (You might want to start with Franklin Veaux’s excellent article Becoming Secure.)
You don’t have to accept inequitable agreements.
Be your own primary.

I really do think that in your specific case, working on valuing yourself is really the key log that’ll unblock a lot of problems.

Good Luck. I bet you’ll do great.

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Ask the Misanthrope: Coming Out as Poly

Goddess of Java — Sat, 03 Jul 2010 20:54:54 +0000

Dear Polyamorous Misanthrope,

I recently started a relationship with a person who has never been poly before. We’ve been dating for a little over a month and things have gotten really emotionally intimate, really fast. It’s wonderful and we’re both really happy being with each other. The complicated part for him is that I’m very poly. I have long-standing primary and secondary relationships.

The take home point here is that he’s not going to be my primary and if he wants a primary he’s going to have to keep dating other people and find one (hopefully someone ok with him still seeing me, but I don’t want to be selfish about this point). When we first started dating I met some of his non-poly friends and it wasn’t a big deal. He introduced me as a friend, we kept the PDAs minimal, and if they assumed anything they assumed we were casually dating.

But now that intense emotions are involved he’s starting to wonder what, if anything, he should tell his friends. He’s afraid to come out, afraid they’ll judge, but he really cares about me and is considering biting the bullet if being in the closet is likely to harm our relationship. My general rule for my non-primary relationships is that I don’t introduce them to or introduce them as platonic friends to people I’m not out to as poly (I’m out to my close friends, but not out at work, and not out to family). Trouble is with him that ship has sailed.

I feel weird about the idea of having to lie to people about our relationship. Not saying is one thing, but if they ask??? At the same time I don’t want to push him into making any major life changes just because I’m this big, bright, shiny new person in his life. Got any advice?

Signed,

Cramping His Mono Style

While it is many people’s strong preference to have relationships acknowledged socially, sometimes it’s awkward. Our society does have a monogamous paradigm with perceived rights and obligations towards couples as a unit. This can make things kind of weird. When I lived in a group marriage, I preferred that my spice be acknowledged as exactly that. In retrospect? I think I was expecting the world to conform to me, rather than just moving through the world on my own terms and not trying to mold other people.

I’m not sure, though, that I understand. Is your boyfriend asking you to lie about your relationship, or does he just not want to bring it up? I do tend to tell the truth when asked a direct question — sometimes with a note of horrified surprise if I feel it is too direct or intrusive.

A friend of mine tends to introduce his friends and lovers by name only. He doesn’t use relationship titles. If someone wants to get nosy about it, it’s on the other person. I rather like this approach as it works from a presumption of personal privacy about things that don’t matter. The idea that we’d treat someone differently that we’ve been introduced to because those friends’ binkies have touched is really weird, when you give it some thought. After all, what other people do privately between themselves is hardly our business nor does it affect us.

Of course, the real point is that couples are often treated as units with certain socially-perceived rights and privileges simply because that couple is an acknowledged unit. My thought is that if you’re poly, you might want to re-think that convention as you’ve rethought many others. I don’t have a full answer on how to handle it, because it’s an individual thing. For the record, I’m married, but don’t tend to do all the proper social “married couple” things. The Prince and I have worked out what works for us and it’s hardly conventional, but hey, that’s par for the course for poly people. There are people who know The Prince and his girlfriend and have socialized with them, but not me. I expect they’d be a bit surprised to know he has a wife. Shoot, even people who have socialized with all of us might very well think that The Prince and I are divorced but on good terms.[1] We choose not to volunteer, though if directly asked, we tell the truth.

We’re rarely asked.

Not giving full disclosure about your relationship to your partners would be deception, yes. They expect that information.[2] I’m not sure in a social context that you owe anyone a detailed explanation of the exact nature of the relationship. If people are that close to you, they can ask, I would think. If they’re not that close, they’re just being nosy.

Miss Manners, of all people, actually has encouraged the same thing… twice. She’s amazingly tactful about the concept of polyamory and other socially non-mainstream issues. She’s my hero and if I ever grow up, I hope I show that level of grace.

[1] These are situations where we’d be socializing around our kids, which makes some sort of connection pretty immediately obvious.

[2] I’m assuming… Maybe you don’t have such an agreement, and that’s okay, too. But many poly people do

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Ask the Misanthrope: Confused and Need Help

Goddess of Java — Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:45:27 +0000

This letter is an edited highlights version – just for clarity’s sake:

I am attracted to the idea of polyamory for the spiritual implications, perhaps even more so than the physical ones. I feel it can help us to grow more as people, and can elevate and expand our love and oneness to new heights.

All that being said… I am confused and I need help!!

So, first thing is… I have tried to break up with my boyfriend, we’ll call him “Steve”, a few times throughout the course of our relationship, mostly from feeling smothered, wanting independence space and freedom– not for any lack of love towards him. (More clues to my natural poly tendency…) Most recently, about… 3 weeks ago, I was feeling stunted, claustrophobic, and like I needed to regain my wholeness. Basically, I kicked him out of my place. He was paying a little more than a quarter of the rent, and I felt I had a right to, since I was the original renter and paying the greater portion of the rent. This threw him for quite a loop, understandably. I may have acted a little rashly… When the move was over, and I had finally collected myself– I came out with what I really wanted: openness. It was a very natural discussion, and he very naturally agreed that it would be a fun and interesting thing to try out. Great! Exciting! Only thing is… he was still pretty pissed at me for kicking him out.

Next matter is… I’m really into his best friend, we’ll call him “Bob”. Bob and I actually dated for a little while before I even met Steve. I know he likes me, but I think he is unsure of whether “going there” with me would create a lot of drama. Bob HATES drama!

As far as I know, in my circle of friends I am the first to state that I am “open”. What if I scare everyone away?

I would greatly appreciate your help and support for a young, budding polyamorist! Thank you!

*gently lays the Stick of Grandmotherly Kindness slightly out of impulsive reach*

Cupcake, you need to sit down and get your head on straight before you have a hope in the world of any relationship working out. You’re zipping around making impulsive decisions that affect people around you in really basic and profound ways.

Knowing what you really want is great. You want openness and can ask for it. That’s all cool. Thing is, now you’ve got a problem with Steve, and it’s huge. See, in kicking him out of his home, you’ve hit him at a deep and basic level – a need for physical security. He’s naturally going to find trusting you hard at this point. If you want a relationship with him you’re going to need to rebuild trust. This is going to take more than holding hands in a circle and getting your Kum-ba-ya-yas out.

As far as being interested in his friend, I’ve seen this go a few ways. When I was (probably) younger than you are, I did get involved with a close friend of my then fiancé (now husband). We were romantically involved for a few years, and know what? Twenty years on , we’re still friends and deeply value each other. But I sure as hell didn’t start that relationship before I’d established a pretty decent and strong relationship with my other partner.[1] I mean, we were gettin’ married and all. You ain’t there yet, m’dear. Steve’s still reeling from being tossed out on his ear. Being poly and involved with a couple of close friends needs a major amount of trust building, and as far as the emotional bank account is concerned, you’re in the hole.

Is rebuilding trust possible? Yes. Thankfully. But it takes time, patience and a hearty whack of humility and self-examination.

As far as not scaring people away for being poly? You won’t. If you’re scaring people away, it’ll be about being crazy, not about being poly. Sane, stable people are remarkably chill about sane, stable polys. If you and your friends aren’t sane and stable, ya’ll need to be working on that first, anyway.

As far as the spiritual aspects? I’m afraid you have probably come knocking on the wrong door with that one. I don’t think polyamory makes you more loving. I’ve seen about the same percentage of selfish, insensitive jerks and the same percentage of kindly, tender loving people in the poly community as the monogamous community. I expect people just act like people, and that’s really what it boils down to.

I hope this isn’t too much of a downer or anything, but as a takeaway, trust can be built by being consistently trustworthy, Poly relationships can and do work best if the people in them know themselves and are honest with themselves and their partners, and it really can be awesome if you can be the best person you can be.

Good luck!

Mama Java

[1] This is not to imply that I have not pulled any Stupid Relationship Tricks. I have. Sweet Baby Jesus, have I ever!

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Ask the Misanthrope: Left Out

Goddess of Java — Sat, 15 May 2010 00:39:44 +0000

A New Reader Asks:

I have been seeing a guy,living and working with him for about 4 months. He introduced me to the idea of polyamory. I had honestly never heard of it, but the more I learned the more I wanted of it. Secretly I had been bisexual and interested in women for some time, and finally I met a guy that wasn’t just interested in having a threesome, not jealous of my relationships with my girl friends, but promoted it. I was in awe. Now suddenly something has changed. Since finding this love inside of me, I have felt insanely happy, giving, loving, and learning more about plolyamory and yoga each day. We run a yoga center with two of my old roommates (how i met him), doing massage, etc.

The thing is this, we have had some good times with girls we’ve met, and some good times with friends of mine, and it all goes cool. About 2 weeks before he met me he was seeing another girl, and then me and we are on a much deeper level with one another, and see eye to eye on many things. Not that it really matters, this guy loves everyone and I know thats the way it should be. The thing is, this girl wants nothing to do with me. She isn’t interested in group sex and it really makes me feel left out and alone when she is around. He has agreed to not be with her alone, but this girl won’t even hug me for a picture. What to do? When she’s around he completely drops me, doesn’t even pay attention to me at all, rarely talks to me. It’s like I’m put on the back burner. When I ask why I’m being treated as if I don’t exist, or I’m just the back up babe, he tells me it’s my fault for not involving myself, but I try…I just know this girl doesn’t want anything. He has told me int he past that she says, lets get alone and we’ll do anything you want together. I mean, what the hell!! I live with him, can she not respect that and try to include me? This morning we were all in bed together and he asked how we both slept, we both said fine. Then they started talking to eachother in spanish, I’m in Panama if I didn’t mention that and am still trying to learn spanish. They continued for a very long time and the next thing I knew, I realized no one was talking to me at all. Instead of trying to butt in their conversation and be rude, I just got up and left. I find myself crying and unhappy and I just feel like I want out. I don’t know how to handle myself,but how can this be? I believe all that he has taught me, yet he seems to act like a different person when she is around. He says she needs more attention than me because I’m stronger, yet I am the one here crying. Please help Goddess of Java, give me some helpful advice.

Okay, first of all, just because you’re poly doesn’t necessarily mean that all loves will sleep with all other loves. The woman you’re discussing doesn’t owe you physical contact just because she’s sleeping with your boyfriend. If the girl isn’t into group sex, she isn’t. Not every polyamorous person is, I assure you. I wouldn’t be very pleased with anyone who felt I owed them hugs and would be pretty unlikely to have much incentive to cultivate their acquaintance, much less a friendship.

Since you’re trying to learn the language, I don’t think it’s inappropriate to ask for the occasional translation when you don’t understand it when they’re speaking Spanish. Since you live in a Spanish-speaking country, I can’t imagine they’d be foolish enough to think they were speaking in a private code in front of you (which would be pretty rude). Learning a language is pretty intense, but if they’re bilingual, they know that. It might be that they think they’re including you and don’t realize how much you’re feeling confused and left out.

I do sometimes discuss letters with partners, and mentioned this one to The Prince. He frowned and said that the idea that your boyfriend has tried to turn this around and put it all on you doesn’t have him feeling very confident about how well the two of you are communicating.

He’s right, as it happens. Relationship problems just aren’t on one person, any more than wonderful relationship interactions are. While it’s certainly possible you’re holding yourself aloof (and God knows that North Americans can seem damn emotionally reserved in the face of some Latin American cultures), it is also possible there’s an expectation that you should be “convenient”.

I suspect that there’s some cross-purposes are going on here, and something that might help is to think clearly about what it is that you want. I don’t mean the band-aids that you think will make you feel better (i.e. your boyfriend never being alone with another woman), but what it is you really want. Maybe it’s more focus when you’re together. Maybe it’s clearer communication. Maybe it’s a backrub. (Hey, wants aren’t always complex!) But do think hard. Because in good relationships, you’re totally responsible for figuring out what it is what you want, and then communicating that.

Here’s the scary part. Sometimes, when you ask, you don’t get a “yes”. Getting a no sucks. The thing is, sometimes it’s something you can suck up, and sometimes it’s something you can’t.

Sane polyamory is damned near impossible without a certain degree of not only self-knowledge, but a deep understanding of what’s acceptable to you and what is not.

Probably the best thing for you at this point is to find a way to think uninterrupted about what it is you really want out of life and a relationship so that you can ask for that. What are your dreams? Your goals? Things you love to have happen? What are your dealbreakers? When you know all of that, you’ll be in a better position to know where you want to go with this.

Good luck!

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Ask the Misanthrope: Jealousy?

Goddess of Java — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:00:08 +0000

A Faithful Reader Asks:

My husband and I have been discussing polyamory over the past couple months. I feel comfortable with the idea, and I know we communicate very well with each other. I am actually concerned about how my reactions could possibly hurt his relationships. I know I have had jealousy issues in the past, which I think come from fears of abandonment or neglect. I believe I am past that point, and I trust the relationship with my husband, but nothing has happened that I think would have provoked that ‘jealous’ reaction. I don’t want my husband to find someone he can have a good relationship with, and end up having to break it off and potentially hurt another person’s feelings because I become upset or jealous. Is this a normal concern for people in polyamorous relationships?

Yes, it’s quite a normal concern. How the two of you handle your relationships between you is definitely a matter you need to settle between yourselves. I cannot discourage enough, however, from mapping “I feel jealous” to “you have to break it off with the other partner”.

Yes, you need to be able to say if you’re lonely, and trust that you’ll be able to be listened to. I’m not saying to suck it up or suffer in silence. I’m saying bring things up to your partner. The theory is that you guys love each other, right? A very good thing to do in a poly relationship is for everyone on all sides to do their best to concentrate on that part. It really helps nudge everyone into treating each other well.

In my own relationships “I feel jealous” (and yes, of course it has happened) does not map to “you must break it off”. It leads to discussion. Sometimes it’s that I am feeling insecure. Sometimes it really is because a partner is ignoring our own relationship for the new and shiny. Sometimes it can be an indication of another relationship issue that’s serious. It can be from many roots, some of them internal, and some not. It would be a bad idea to assume either way.

But make no mistake. Polyamory is most certainly a risk. (Not that monogamy isn’t, it’s just that the risk is more obvious in a poly relationship). I encourage you to look into yourself and think about where you feel good and secure, where you don’t and where you feel your strengths and joys lie.

Good luck!

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Ask the Misanthrope: Careful with that Axe, Eugene

Goddess of Java — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 23:29:12 +0000

I am married (7 years), with boyfriend (year and a half), who also has another girlfriend (a few months). They are having trouble getting along; it seems to be a matter of different needs for affection, coupled with poor communication. I have heard only his side, I see how they interact and there is definitely something wrong. He is desperately unhappy, but can’t see a way to resolve things. He’s asked me to “talk to her”, to see if I can understand her point of view better than he can and maybe clue him in.

Here’s my question. I’m not unwilling to do this, but I don’t want to overstep my bounds.. She and I get along well, and are friends. At what point can one girlfriend say to her sister-girlfriend “it seems you guys are having problems. I know he’s really upset and you don’t seem happy either. Do you want to talk about it?” Is that ever appropriate? It seems to me that polyamory is partly about building supportive community, but I also don’t want to complicate things. I like this woman, my boyfriend loves her, and it would be a shame if they split up.

Okay, I’m gonna admit my first reaction involved beating your boyfriend with a whacky-noodle and forcing him to write on sidewalk in red chalk, “I am responsible for my own relationships” for twelve blocks or until he’s Very Sorry and Promises to Behave Himself Forever. Goodness me, asking a girlfriend to be a go-between with another girlfriend? GACK! HORRORS!

But you’re not asking about your boyfriend. You’re asking about you. That’s cool, since you’re in charge of what you do and all. You say your boyfriend’s girlfriend is your friend. So, you’ve an established relationship. You’re allowed to care, certainly. You’re certainly allowed to ask her if there is anything wrong. If you whittle it down to, “It seems you guys are having some problems, do you want to talk about it?” it’s not overstepping usual bounds. Especially if you’re perfectly willing to shut the devil up and accept “no” for an answer should it come up.

Even so, this is dangerous ground.

You’re not nor should you be a go-between in relationships. Please learn from my idiotic mistakes. If you think there’s a miscommunication between partners, you can’t fix it. The only people that have a hope in the world of salvaging things are the people directly involved. Which means, not you.

There’s nothing in the world wrong with being supportive of friends. You can be supportive of each of them if your support is what they want. But for the love of Petulia, don’t become a relationship counselor to someone with whom you have a relationship.

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Ask the Misanthrope: Secondary Rights

Goddess of Java — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:00:53 +0000

I’d like to see a column on “secondary” relationships and/or on the concept of how setting boundaries in a multi-adult relationship works in a relationship that actually works.

The quotes there on secondary are because I know the whole concept of hierarchical relationships is a hot topic, but in this case I specifically mean something like two people, who are each married to others, who have a relationship, and they both fully acknowledge that their marriages (and the related children, bills, etc) must be their first loyalty.

I ran into a situation a couple years back where boundaries were negotiated, and the wife of the person I was dating thought that the appropriate way to address things that weren’t working for her was to tell him as he walked out the door for a date that there were new rules. Rules frequently got more lax when she had a new person to date, and were more stringent again when those relationships ended.

Eventually my relationship with her husband ended because the wife came to the conclusion that poly wasn’t for her – which was all well and good, really, since it became obvious to us all that things weren’t going to work for her no matter what happened or what was agreed to.

Lesson number one for me from the whole situation is to ask, “when you say you have a veto rule, what do you mean by that? How often has it been used? What were the circumstances surrounding its use?”

So, what do you think? Is it controlling to expect people to follow rules they’ve agreed to or negotiate new ones? Appropriate to change the rules without discussing first? Do “secondary” partners give up any and all rights to have input on the boundaries in their relationships? Inquiring minds want to know :)

No, secondary partners most certainly do not give up rights. My word! So as not to reinvent the wheel, please allow me to point to what I consider one of the best pieces on secondary rights in polyamory writing: Successful Secondaries. The proposed Secondary’s Bill of Rights is well thought-out and sensitive to both sides of the equation.

What you describe is probably a textbook example of why I not only would be reluctant to date someone new to poly, but date a member of a couple where vetoes exist. I know that my opinion isn’t all that popular in the poly community, but I am not a fan of vetoes at all! However, if you’re willing to be involved in relationships where they exist (and many polys are, you’re hardly alone in that), yes, getting a solid definition of exactly what that entails is a great idea. The more information you have, the better!

Expecting people to follow through on agreed-upon rules is hardly controlling. However, I wanna get to boundaries for a minute. People mis-use that word a whole bunch. I’m not saying you are, but I want to be incredibly clear about what they really mean. “You must…” isn’t a boundary. It’s an order. “I will…” or “I will not…” is a boundary. It’s all about understanding whose behavior you control. (You know it’s just yours, right?) The difference is subtle, but once you’ve wrapped your mind around it, interpersonal relationship drama of all sorts (not just the romantic ones) is cut to about a tenth of what it was.

So, with that in mind, “You can’t change the rules at the last minute” isn’t a boundary.

“I choose not to remain in relationships with arbitrary rule changes,” is a boundary. In fact, it’s a good one!

Human beings are allowed boundaries, so of course you’re allowed them in a secondary relationship as much as in a primary one. It’s merely a matter of understanding what you want, what you will do, what you’re happy to have in a relationship and what you choose to walk away from. I’m not trying to put relationships out there as disposable. They’re not. But no relationship is worth being badly-treated to have. If being treated as an object is a condition of the relationship, you don’t need it.

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No Means No

Goddess of Java — Mon, 25 May 2009 04:00:45 +0000

Hail, O Caffeinated one!

Dear Goddess – here’s my situation:

My husband and I have been together for four years, and married for two. He knew I was poly from the get-go, and while he has never yet expressed an interest in another woman, I’m obviously not opposed to the idea.

‘Tain’t as obvious as all that, I can tell you, as plenty of people only want it one way! Glad you’re reasonable about that.

We have been functionally monogamous since meeting, mostly because I have not sought outside partners. It’s not my style to “need” several lovers, but sometimes people enter your life and do quirky things to your insides.. You know? The Husband has always been verbally supportive of my freedom to see other people, with boundaries agreeable to both of us. I have had occasion to test this very recently, as I’ve fallen in love with his best friend.

My husband could not be more supportive or awesome about the entire situation. His genuine, open displays of compersion are something I have never before witnessed in a person who identifies as mono. I am a lucky, lucky girl.

So here’s my problem – I’m not sure The Best Friend is ok with this. And specifically, because I’m “the buddy’s wife.” The Best Friend is a bachelor, currently seeking a lover, and has some neglect/abandonment issues he’s working through – like a champ. I know he finds me physically and intellectually attractive because boys are transparent (or, well.. this one is). I am currently on a month long humanitarian mission to the middle of a war zone, and thought – f*ck it. Before I leave I’ll come clean and tell him how I feel. Hey, that’s kind of romantic, right? I could get blown up. And he’ll have some time to think.

The Best Friend’s response was very black-and-white – “I make it a rule never to get involved with my friends’ partners.” Ok… well… Husband says it’s ok? For real? No sale. I probably kind of freaked him out and broke his brain a little. I expected this.

Well, looks like your problem is solved. He said no. That’s it. You’re done. You struck out. Welcome to being human.

So, I’ve been in my Warzone for a couple weeks now. I’ve gotten no replies from my emails to Best Friend, even though he and The Husband are hanging out all the time (which makes me surprisingly jealous!). I still don’t know what to expect when I get home.

Well, you’re not gonna be involved with him, I’ll tell you that much!

I am hesitant to ask The Husband to advocate for me, or ask him to bring the matter up with The Best Friend. I don’t want to do anything that would jeopardize their relationship they share, because they clearly love each other (in a totally heterosexual and manly way). At the same time, I’m not sure if I’m ready to be “just friends” with the Best Friend, if that’s what it’s going to come down to. And he’s at my house a lot. Avoiding him seems like a high school move, and I don’t want to just withdraw – too many people have done that to him already. However, spending time with the both of them, without the ability to be freely affectionate to them both (and my husband and I are very demonstrative) is not something that sounds like fun to me. It would be nice to get more 1:1 time with the Best Friend, it would be nice to go on actual dates… not sure if that is a possibility, and that makes me sad, half a world away.

Ummmm…

He said no.

No dates. No one on one time. He said no. That means it’s done. No begging. No trying to convince him otherwise. If he changes his mind, he has to approach you to tell you so. If he doesn’t, that’s up to him. It’s your job to shut up now, be a big girl and treat him graciously when he’s a guest in your home. That’s it. Yes, even if it’s clear he’s attracted. If you care an iota about him, you are not going to try to get him to go against his stated boundaries.

Two weeks more in country, Goddess. Tell me something that will ease my mind.

Thanks, and peace be unto brew.

Being shot down flippin’ sucks. I don’t like it, either. But if you respect the other person, you accept it and leave it alone. That said, you’re allowed to seek solitude if you don’t wanna hang out as just friends. That’s not high-schoolish. Being gracious is one thing, but you’re allowed not to torture yourself, too. You can have some sort of, “Hi, ya’ll have fun with the video games. I have a big project I’m finishing up, so I’ll be in the other room. Nice to see you, dewd.” Since the fellow is your husband’s friend, it’s not even impolite not to hang out with him if he’s come to visit your husband.

Do keep in mind there’s something like 6 billion people in the world. You met one who said no…

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The Mistress Paradigm

Goddess of Java — Mon, 18 May 2009 04:00:51 +0000

Dear Goddess: I have a couple of questions about navigating my poly relationship and I’d love your advice. First, a bit of background. My husband and I began a polyrelationship with one of my best friends about 6 months ago. Working out my jealousy has been truly difficult, but also rewarding since I continue to learn more about my own internal behaviors as a result. Much of my jealousy revolves around my role as the “practical wife” whereas my friend serves as the “fun wife.” Any ideas you have about this would be truly helpful, since I find myself stumbling over it a lot when I watch them carrying on laughing and having fun. I believe I hold myself apart from them to highlight my isolation and then I feel like if I say anything I will become the needy one. Ugh. None of this sounds great, I know. On the other hand, this is the first real relationship with a woman, and I feel like I have no one to crow about it to. My friends who do know aboutall of this seem to think I’ve set myself up for nothing but pain, so I cannot open up about how excited I feel or, good, or even badly since that would only serve to prove them right. Yikes! And help! Anything you say to me would be helpful.

In cultures where a man might have a wife and a mistress, there is the expectation that the wife fulfills the practical roles and the mistress is for fun. Even in polyamory relationships, it’s not unheard of for one relationship to be about fun and the other about practicality. I’ve not noticed it consistently working well, and do see resentments occasionally building from it.

Since polyamory is not (in theory) really supposed to be about the wife/mistress paradigm, it’s reasonable that you really don’t want to be the one whose role is mostly duty. However, if you choose to hold yourself apart, you’re giving a signal that you’re not wanting attention or to participate in the fun activities, and you’re making that choice for yourself. I know, it can be a pride thing. You can reframe pride to a point where you’re too proud not to express your wants *grin*. Honest, it can be done. Asking to spend time with someone you love isn’t needy. The patient Griselda act doesn’t work. In fact, see The Brave Little Toaster for a complete genius of an analysis of this. *grin* (Speaking of jealousy, I’m mildly jealous that one of the best columns here was not one of mine! — only a little. Rainy is a delightful writer)

Part of this is the “new and shiny” syndrome (known in polyamory circle sas NRE or New Relationship Energy). If you have a habit of going from obsession to obsession, you get absorbed in whatever is new. I expect that’s part of what is going on with your husband and girlfriend. However, don’t you have some fun, new and shiny going on with your girlfriend, too? You stated you’re excited about the relationship.

It’s okay to say, “Look, I don’t want my relationship with you to be solely in terms of practicality and bill-paying. I love you and want to have fun with you, too. Can we schedule something?”

It does seem like there is a lot of labelling going on. “The Fun One”, “The Needy One”. I won’t say roles are worthless, but don’t get too into that. Treating people as individuals with individual wants and needs often works out pretty well in relationships in general.

While it would be unrealistic to expect a lot of support from your friends in this if they’re not poly, do yourself a favor. If you’re getting consistent comments, sit back and analyse them. They can sometimes have a point. Sometimes they’re entirely from a monogamy perspective and not all that useful, but sometimes they can be big screeching reality checks. Try to figure that out.

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Ask the Misanthrope: How to Meet People

Goddess of Java — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 04:00:18 +0000

I have a question for you and I’ll give you a bit of a background on my history with poly in order to help you understand my quandry.

After about 8 or 9 years of marriage my wife met a poly couple, realized she was poly and fell in love with the husband. I have since come to accept this and feel like it is a positive thing except in the sense that it brings me back to feelings I left behind when I got married, such as anxieties about approaching women.

I often find myself attracted to other women but my status as a happily married man is quite public. My being polyamorous is not quite so much. I’m constantly left unsure how to approach talking to someone I’m attracted to. For example, there is a woman I am attracted to currently at work (and I know that makes it more complicated, she and I do not work directly together however and that is not the focus of this question, but feel free to address it also); I am both infatuated and feeling limerence for her, but I also fear what could happen if I addressed this with her. We have both talked about going out to lunch (with bagged lunches) together, but it hasn’t happened yet… Part of this fear is that I don’t want to upset her, I have a strong desire for her to be happy and to do any and everything I can to help foster that for her… however, I’d like to find out if there are any reciprocal feelings.

I am just totally unsure how to address these feelings without looking like I’m an adulterer seeking to have an affair. My wife knows about this woman and has expressed feelings of compersion for me regarding her. She also sympathizes with my concerns and worries. However, she has never had to seek out such things. The local poly community is not child-friendly, and hosts gatherings in venues I don’t find comfortable. Since we have children, this is an issue.

Can you help with this?

Kind Regards,

Sean

Well, Sean, that’s a real issue, it is. In our culture, it is certain more common for women to be approached and men to be doing the approaching. If you feel shy, or find it difficult to talk to women, yes, you’re going to be having problems.

I don’t know how liberal your company is, but unless you’re dealing with one that is liberal to the point of being a Northeastern college, I can’t help but caution you as a poly man not to date someone at the same company. I know this sucks, but if you can envision one way of it going wrong for you, there are probably six or seven more.

You did mention your town, and you’re right that there is an active local poly community and an email list for organization and communication. The problem is that its “culture” may not suit your needs. You do live in an urban enough area that I’d encourage you to try another way of approaching it. Since the local poly culture doesn’t seem to have many child-friendly gatherings, there is a perfect solution you can give your local poly community. Start hosting them. Even child-free twenty-somethings often enjoy barbecues in the back yard!

No-one likes to bear all the burden of hosting gatherings or being the only one responsible for social interaction, so if you’re offering to go a little ways in being a participant, it can be welcome. You can approach it gracefully, “Hey, the strong smell of coffee is a migraine trigger for me, so I can’t come to the coffee house gatherings. But I really would like to hang out and get to know you guys. How would it be if I hosted a poly potluck?”

Successful poly is often about making sure that everyone’s needs are met, and this is a non-romantic example of skills you’ll be using in your poly life anyway.

Yeah, I suppose if you’re having trouble approaching people that this will seem to be intimidating. But look at it another way: this sort of thing will just be great practice for learning how to meet people. Women are not some kind of separate species that needs somehow to be treated differently than the rest of humanity. Learning how to be relaxed approaching, meeting and talking to humans will be a great help to your problem.

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