The Polyamorous Misanthrope

Where Do You Get Your Polyamory Advice?

Goddess of Java — Mon, 14 May 2012 21:00:54 +0000

I am occasionally disturbed by the plethora of polyamory advice out there. No, not because I think I need to be the only advice columnist (hardly!) but because I sometimes wonder how people evaluate the value of said advice. I’m sorry to say I probably have readers, myself, who would likely not consider my own advice as valuable if they had done their research. And you know what? If that’s so, they shouldn’t be reading this!

What should you ask to evaluate whether or not to take someone’s polyamorous advice?

How long have they been poly?

I know this is going to freak out a lot of newly poly people, but someone who has been poly a year or two isn’t going to have the perspective to be able to call bullshit on a lot of things. That being said, should the newly poly be writing about their experiences? Of course! My word, it does make for interesting reading, and chronicling the process is deeply useful on a lot of levels. We see a lot of blogs started when someone becomes poly because if you process mentally while writing, you’re gonna wanna write about the process. It’s natural. What we don’t see, and it’s a pity, is discussion of long-term relationships as much. I think one of the reasons is that once a lot of the processing has been done, it’s just… life. It’s not something we’re giving a significant amount of analytical attention to, and why should we? The processing part is mostly done.

If you reply that the PolyFamilies site probably shouldn’t have gone up (it went up within months of the quad getting together), there’s some truth to that. In our defense, we were looking for people who had long-term group marriages to give us advice, and (hi!) I process by writing.¹

But really, no kidding, it’s a good idea to find people who’ve made it work awhile for your go-to. After awhile, you’ll start to see some useful patterns.

What do their relationships look like?

If their relationships are a clusterfuck, this might not be the best place to go.

If their relationships are portrayed as always perfect, this might not be the best place to go.

As an example, there’s a poly writer I’m rather fond of – Franklin Veaux. In a jealousy article, he talks about being utterly blindsided by jealousy at a certain point in his life and how he dealt with that. He even mentions that up until that point, jealousy wasn’t a real issue in his life. What you’re looking for is people who admit they fucked up, and will report what they learned from it. It’s the learned from it part that’s crucial, I hope you understand. Fucking up is easy, and there’s a fair subset of poly writers that are totally comfortable admitting it.² It’s part of the human condition. Learning from it? That’s slightly less common. But that’s where you get your advice gold.

Do they see polyamory as a cure-all for a broken relationship?

You don’t see this a great deal any more, but there was a time when there was a plethora of “polyamory saved my marriage” stuff out there. It can’t. It doesn’t. Polyamory can be a good relationship choice, but it will mercilessly expose even the tiniest cracks in any relationship.

Entertaining writing is not the same as good advice.

The polyamory community is blessed with some amazing writers. That’s not the same thing as being able to give useful advice. Just because an idea is shiny, or presented in a way that makes you laugh doesn’t mean that it’s really what you should be doing with your life. That hurt to write, because I know that a lot of readers of this blog like the pithy writing. Please look beyond that and think critically about the ideas. They may not be worth all that much to you, or they may be useful, but look beyond the wrapping!

If you’re not good at thinking critically? Learn! Seriously. It’ll help in a lot of areas, not just in evaluating perverts talking about relationships.

______________________________________

¹ I wasn’t newly poly, just new to group marriages.

²Which is a good thing.

You Might Like:

Polyamory is a Lousy Relationship Band-Aid

Goddess of Java — Tue, 08 May 2012 12:00:48 +0000

My boyfriend and I have been together for almost three years. While may not seem like a very long time we try to spend as much time as possible together however it generally ends up just being once a week (that and the fact seeing each other is a bit expensive because of gas). With my classes, his classes, work, and family two days a week together would be a luxury. We have a relatively secure relationship, though we function as an old married couple at this point only seeing each other for once a week for so long is beginning to take its toll on us.

I was beginning to get jelouse of any woman he worked with or played DND with not because I expected he was sleeping with them without telling me but just because they got to spend more time with him than I did. I began to spend a small chunk of our day together crying and lamenting that I couldn’t be with him more often and I’m very lonely all week and he always ended up holding me and reassuring me that eventually we’ll be able to see each other more.

So we talked about it in length and he suggested that in the meantime I get a girlfriend. I’m worried that if I find another partner she’ll only be a temporary “fix” during the week for the time I wish I was spending with him. I don’t think that would be very fair to either of us. It also bothers me that its a very rigid unchallengable one penis policy even if I met a suitable person who was male I wouldn’t be allowed to date him. I actually think I would prefer my 2nd partner to be male, putting more stress on the situation.

I love my boyfriend more than anything, and he means the world to me but not being able to see him is killing me and not being able to share my affection with anyone at all most of the time is even worse, especially not if I’m forced to only look to one gender. Should I even bother starting a relationship with a new partner if it’s going to work this way?

(And yes I do indeed go out with friends and spend time on my own hobbys during the week but they still don’t feel the same as spending time with someone I love. )

You know that treating people as things is a bad idea, yes? If not, well… Don’t treat people as things. It’s bad. You’re right to be wary of using an actual, real flesh and blood human being with feelings, hopes, dreams and desires as some sort of plug to fill the empty love hole of missing your boyfriend. You are damn right it’s not fair. Run with that, honey!

In fact, whack your boyfriend upside the head with a pillow and tell him it’s from me.* The fact that he’s only down with you dating a girl (a non-threatening inferior being), and that it’s fine to use a woman as a stopgap might tell you a few things. I’d suggest thinking damn hard about that. Is that the attitude of someone you want a future with?

Part of this is a bit of a button with me, and I’m sorry that my perspective colors it. You see, I’m bi. One of the things that makes me just cringe is the idea that someone might choose to be involved with me not because they’re attracted to me-the-human-being, but non-threatening-to-the-male-paradigm-female-thing as a second choice because of some OPP. From my perspective, why in hell would I want to date someone who doesn’t want to date me? Never mind the idea that I’m supposed to be filling the empty until the Real Relationship has more time, at which time I’d be dropped like a used hanky. No thank you! Anyone worth dating is going to have more self-regard than to want to tolerate that.

It does sound like you want some more romantic/sexual attention. And yes, it’s fine to want that. It’s also fine to be attracted to who you’re attracted to. You have definitely come up upon a true embuggerance to the smooth running of your relationship.

I think now is a good time to sit down alone in whatever situation you do your best thinking and ask yourself these questions. Be really honest with yourself:

How much time do I want to spend with a partner?
If I cannot get this much time with a partner, how do I want to handle it?
How long is it until you are both out of school?
Do I want to hang on that long and am I willing to bet my future on it?

I’m not saying for one second you have to see a partner regularly to have a good relationship. You don’t. Plenty of poly people, such as Yours Truly, have partners they don’t see often due to distance and they’re often happy relationships. That just doesn’t sound like where you are.

One other thing: Polyamory is a lousy solution to most relationship problems. Notice I don’t say that polyamory is a lousy relationship form. I think it is a terrible idea to use it to try to patch up relationship problems. Loving lots of people is awesome, yes. But that’s really the only legitimate reason to be poly, in my very strong opinion. Not only is trying to use it as a relationship patch cruel to the other people you’ll date, it won’t even solve the problems it was intended to, but is more likely to crack the original relationship apart. Which may be a win-win in the long run, too. I’m not of the “preserve the relationship at all costs” kinda gal.

I know I haven’t given you any real answers that solve your problem, but I hope I’ve given you something to think about and this will help you decide what it is you really want to do.

___________________________

* Not really. The Polyamorous Misanthrope doesn’t advocate relationship violence outside of specifically-negotiated kink.

You Might Like:

First, start with the self

Goddess of Java — Tue, 01 May 2012 12:00:00 +0000

I am a mostly-mono woman in an LDR with a poly woman who classifies herself as the “free-love hippie” type, but more and more it seems like she’s using poly as an excuse not to care about my feelings. We had discussed that casual dates with other people would be okay, but she had translated that into “sexual hook-ups leading into full relationship” with a friend, leaving me the third wheel. It’s too late at this point to put my foot down, and she’s often said when she’s really determined to do something, she’d do it even if I did say no.

Their social-media equivalent of PDAs leave me depressed and regressing back into self-harming behavior on an almost-daily basis. (I’d previously attempted suicide when I found out through a third party she was considering a green card marriage to another friend, but I suppose that’s neither here nor there.) I’ve been doing so much research on websites and forums like this to know what the mono partner is supposed to do in mixed relationships, yet it still feels like I’m the only one putting in any effort here for anyone to be happy.

And I just found out, again, through a third party, she’s now added a boyfriend to all of this. I am tired of consistently being left out of her life. I am tired of crying and not being sober and un-scarred. And I am tired of not being appreciated, loved, or even understood.

You need two things. You need to get out of this relationship. You guys are a lousy match and you’re making each other terribly unhappy. It is clear you’re not getting the level of communication you need, and it’s clear she is determined to live the way she is living. Her choice, but it’s not making you happy. Bow out.

But what you need, and an order of magnitude more, is to get into therapy, and get into treatment for substance abuse (AA is free, by the way, if money is an issue). You can find ways to manage these issues, and it does create a beautiful difference in your relationships. One of the serious problems with mental illness is that it really plays hob with our judgment when it is unmanaged. It leaves us open to being treated poorly, and it causes us to treat ourselves poorly. I wish I could say some magic words that would be an epiphany to you and Make It All Better. It doesn’t work that way. I wish it did. But if you’re willing to take the time to get yourself straightened out, you’ll find that your relationship issues will start falling into place better. Not perfect because relationships are people and people aren’t perfect.

Here’s some things to keep in mind:

You can choose how you act.

You can influence your emotions by your choice of actions.

You can make choices of actions that influence you in itty, bitty positive ways. Consistently choosing small things to influence your mood for good will start to snowball, if you’re consistent about it — VERY slowly at first, but it’s like lifting weights. At first you struggle to lift ten pounds. By going and trying a little bit consistently, you get stronger and a year later, you’re tossing around 100 lbs like it was nothing. Then people who haven’t tried it get mad at you and say you’re just “naturally strong” and don’t understand what it’s like to find it hard to lift ten pounds.

I know what it’s like to find it hard to lift those emotional ten pounds. I’ve been suicidal, so I know and understand where you’re coming from. For what it’s worth, it is not EASY and there are days when it feels so glacially slow you wonder if it’s even worth it, but with small baby steps, you CAN learn to manage depression over a period of a few years with dedicated concentration. I mean, yeah, it kind of sucks to make a project out of yourself when you want to do so much MORE with your life, but if you get that straightened out, the other stuff falls into place a lot better. And yeah, chances are good that people, not understanding the need to make a project out of yourself, are wondering why you’re not accomplishing that MORE. Don’t bother trying to argue with ‘em and get on with what you need to do. They’re living a different life from you.

You Might Like:

Can Having Children and Polyamory Mix?

Goddess of Java — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:00:00 +0000

One of the biggest challenges in a polyamorous person’s life is how to balance good parenting with multiple relationships. As you often hear, “Love is limitless; time is not.” But more than that, how do you handle the concept of being polyamorous in a monogamous world, and how does that mesh or clash with being a parent?

I got the idea for this column from my son. FWB was coming over to visit and we were going to go out to eat. My son, who is in his late teens and is experimenting with manly condescension, patted me on the head and said, “You have a fun date and be good.” I kicked at his shins and told him if was a condescending little heathen again, I was going to knock him winding. I swear, I don’t know where the boy gets that behavior…

But the point is that yeah, I’m poly, and yes, my kids know. In our case, that some people are poly is simply an accepted fact of life, and it’s just not a big deal. However, sometimes you do have to discuss matters with the kids.

What do you tell the children?

You’ve heard the term “age appropriate,” yes? Certainly it applies here. It’s unnecessary and foolish to batter our children’s ears with too much information, but on the other hand, some context is useful in relationships.

For a very small child, there’s always the analogy of the parental relationship, presuming it is still intact, of course. “Mommy and Daddy love each other very much, and Mommy also loves Mr. Adam, and we’re all happy together.”

You’ll find you don’t have to ramp this up too much with older children. While vocabulary might be a bit more sophisticated, basic semantic content is going to remain the same.

Answer questions if your children have them. The older they are, the more likely they are to have them. They might be concerned about what it will mean to their own lives, and rightfully so! Think about this and answer carefully. Be especially careful to follow through on any promises you make. I hope you’ll be able to reassure them that they’ll get the same love, care and attention as ever.

The Monogamous World and the Polyamorous Household? Communication is still the key

Depending on where you live, this might be a big deal or a small deal. A very conservative area might have some problems with polyamory and might use your children as a control technique. I wish it were otherwise, but that’s the simple truth. You want to know how you’re going to handle it before you come out to your child.

While not into secrets, necessarily, I am strongly in favor of considering need to know fairly carefully. What you don’t want to do is indoctrinate your kid that your household and what goes on in is secret. Laying that kind of burden on a kid is not only mean, it makes them vulnerable to people who might want them keeping less benevolent secrets than who their parents are dating. That’s not to say that kids can’t volunteer the damnedest information at the most embarrassing times, but I consider the “secrets” bit dangerous to future boundaries, which is why I come down on it.

What can this look like with your child?

I’d love to be able to tell you that all children are always cool with their parents going poly. Sometimes they are and sometimes they are not. There are instances when a kid is just against the idea because it freaks out his world view. It’s sad. It happens. People really sometimes don’t accept things, and ya know what? Kids are people with all that entails.

But before you blow that off, I’d caution you to examine yourself. Yes, of course being a parent doesn’t mean that you don’t have a right to have a life, but be honest. Is polyamory causing a lot of processing? Is this processing interfering with your parenting? Yeah, I know. I go on about it. I go on about it because I really did, no kidding, spend some time letting relationship processing distract from time I needed to spend on parenting. I hope I caught it soon enough, but I suppose only time will tell there.

So, don’t fool yourself about that. It’s not that poly and kids can’t mix. It most certainly can, and can be a good thing, but only when you’re ruthless in your self-honesty.

You Might Like:

Space Shuttle Polyamory

Goddess of Java — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:00:20 +0000

This damn blog has been too serious lately. There are times when I think we poly writers, in concern for the poly community and its issues might be giving an inaccurate impression.

You see how it’s work. You see all the skills you need to learn. You see how we caution you that we all have our jealousies, insecurities and our issues.

It’s not that this isn’t true. It is, but goodness me, it’s like the heat tiles on the Space Shuttle. You’re screwed without ‘em, yeah. But they’re not the sum total of the mission. The point of the Shuttle was to get people into space and safely home.

The point of polyamory is to enjoy. Not just sexy rumpus, though I hope you’re enjoying as much of that as you want to be. Friends, relationships are fun and satisfying in general. These are your peeps – people to make a movie with, build siege engines with, have interesting debates with, laugh with, share joy with.

So yeah, you do need to do maintenance on the heat tiles. But don’t stay on the launch pad doing after your systems check, people. Fly.

You Might Like:

How did I get in THIS mess?

Goddess of Java — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:00:28 +0000

I sometimes talk about creeping concessions, but I sometimes wonder if I’m giving the impression that I don’t believe in negotiation. Nothing could be further from the truth. The only real trick is how to differentiate the two.

Creeping concessions, in my experience, are one-time concessions or favors that are then established as precedents from then on. Negotiation is different entirely and has to do with setting agreements on a global scale.

Ferinstance:

Joe: Will you pick me up at four in the morning tomorrow?
Maria: Sure.

(Three days later)

Joe: I need you to pick me up at four in the morning tomorrow.
Maria: Sorry, hon, I’ve got a long day and am not going to be able to do that.
Joe: What the hell? You did it last Monday! I thought we’d agreed that you’d pick me up when I asked!

That’s a creeping concession, though that one is so big and obvious that chances are most people would stop punch it unless the relationship had gotten so bad that their crazy had become your normal. Chances are good that if someone has poor relationship skills, or worse, is deliberately trying to take advantage of you, you’ll see much smaller increments in the process. But even so, the process is quite the same.

Healthy relationships where people have good communication skills will have negotiation. Negotiation would look like this:

Joe: There are going to be days that I’m not going to be able to predict in advance that I’ll need a ride very early in the morning. Would you be willing to do that?
Maria: I’m going to have to give a conditional yes on that. You see, some days I have to work from eight to eight. On those days, getting up really early is going to seriously interfere with my sleep.

Joe: Crap. I really need a ride those days and the bus doesn’t run that early. I know you like to do the cooking, but would it help if you knew that you’d be able to count on me having dinner on the table those nights?

Maria: I’m willing to try it on a provisional basis for a month or so. If it interferes with my work performance, we’ll need to find something else.

Joe: Okay. Tell you what, we’ll do it for a month, but during that month I’ll cast around for another solution.

(One month later)

Joe: How is getting up early going? I’ve talked to my boyfriend and he’s willing to pick me up on your twelve hour days.

Maria: Don’t sweat it. Since I’m not cooking those nights, it works out just fine. Besides, I’m liking that curry you made last week and want to give you a chance to make it again *grin*

Notice in the negotiation stage, Joe really needs that ride. Maria needs her sleep. THEY BOTH SAY WHAT THEY NEED. In this instance, Joe and Maria are also being proactive and showing good will. Notice Maria is willing to try it provisionally, but gives a time frame. Being concrete helps with establishing boundaries and keeping the waters from getting muddy. Joe understands the time frame and FOLLOWS THROUGH on a possible alternate solution. At the end of the trial in this case Maria decides she’s fine with the arrangement, and in this case is willing to see a small benefit to herself in the process. I can’t emphasize enough how much mutual good will is required for negotiation to work well. Joe and Maria have a good relationship because they see each other as on the same side. The end of that check-in could just as easily have gone:

(One month later)

Joe: How is getting up early going? I’ve talked to my boyfriend and he’s willing to pick me up on your twelve hour days.

Maria: Good, because I’m finding that I’m having a hard time concentrating those last three hours of my 12s. I really need more sleep.

Joe: Thanks for giving me the time to find an alternative, hon *kiss* I’ll text Michael and let him know I will be needing that ride.

Either way, the presumption of good will stands, both partners have been honest about what they can and cannot do, and they both are genuinely interested in each others’ needs and welfare.

So what happens if you find yourself in a situation where you’ve been agreeing to more and more without realizing it or intending to?

If you find that you’ve gone in further than you’d intended, I think the best thing to remember is that you do have the right to change your mind about what YOU will do. (Not necessarily what the other person will do). I think it would still be foolish to presume ill-will on the part of the person you’re doing the favors for, mind. Mistakes happen, and since you’re responsible for the no, you’re responsible for communicating your own boundaries. If you didn’t get busy and fix that by letting the interested parties know. They might be disappointed in the change, and might even say so, but if you’re dating a grown up, what you won’t get is a tantrum.

If you get the tantrum, you have another problem to solve. :)

You Might Like:

Blindsided by Jealousy

Goddess of Java — Tue, 13 Mar 2012 12:00:25 +0000

Mama Java, help me.

I’ve identified as poly since I knew what the word meant. I used to have no concept of romantic jealousy and assumed, foolishly, that this made me an enlightened being. In reality it’s left me totally unprepared for jealousy when it does hit.

I have two partners. My partners each have their own partners. One does not make me jealous at all, but the other makes me so jealous I could scream. Whenever I see them kiss or flirt or touch each other, I feel frustrated, insecure, afraid, the whole gamut of jealousy.

I don’t know how to make it stop. I’ve spoken, at length, with my partner about what my jealousy could mean. We’ve addressed aspects that I’ve found helpful. We’ve defined what the relationship is, and part of what I find threatening about it. Envying their NRE, not wanting to be intimate with my partner’s partner, etc. She’s reassured me and made me feel loved.

But I still feel jealous. Whenever I see them kiss, in particular, the negative emotions come rushing in again.

Am I expecting it to be too easy? Do I need to communicate more, set better boundaries, or any of the other magic relationship words? Or can I just not be around my partner and her partner when they’re flirtacious?

Any advice would be most welcome. Thank you.

If it makes you feel any better at all, being blindsided by unexpected jealousy is a not to uncommon experience in polyamory. I’ve had it happen, and I’ve seen it reported from some remarkably sensible and together poly people, so I’m not sure that never feeling jealousy has a damned thing to do with being enlightened. In fact, it’s possible that until you’ve been tested, it’s impossible to call oneself enlightened – if one ever should.

I don’t know how to make it stop. I understand why you’d want to. It hurts. You say you’ve analyzed it a great deal, and it’s good that you’ve done some self-exploration. One thing I would like to point out (and I’m shamelessly stealing from Franklin Veaux’s “Jealousy Management for Love and Profit or, how to fix a broken refrigerator“) is that you say that your partner’s partner makes you feel jealous. Nope. Not quite. She’s a trigger to the cause of your jealousy. It’s a subtle difference, but one you might want to explore.

There is no magic cure, I am sorry to say. I’m even sorrier to see you talking about communication, boundaries, etc. as somehow magic fixes. They’re not. They’re tools, and tools that require consistent, moderate effort on a long-term basis. I think that’s a serious problem in our perceptions of mental issues. We’ve read too damned many stories about Freud or Jung where they claim that they’ve gotten to the root of a problem and just the right combination of words or ideas will mean the problem is all fixed. We’re looking for the epiphany, that sudden flash of light that will suddenly make everything all better. Mental issues don’t work that way, dammit.

What does work, and this works for a lot of uncomfortable emotions, including jealousy, is a combination of analysis and (occasionally tedious) daily practice. So, what can you practice?

Being in the moment

I’ve mentioned this in columns before, but I don’t expect people to have all eight years of this blog memorized. It bears repeating. I was once hospitalized for suicidal ideation. In common parlance, I went crazy. The tools I learned to keep from going crazy again have been incredibly beneficial when it comes to Life, Love, and Relationships. The biggest thing I learned was to be in the moment. As a simple example, let’s say that I’m driving to a meeting that scares the hell out of me. It could be a career make or break pitch, a foreclosure meeting at a bank – anything that’s really scary. So, I’m dwelling on it as I’m driving down the road, thinking about what I’m going to say or do. Now, in point of fact, I’m driving, not directly experiencing that meeting. Any experience of that the meeting is coming up is because I’m putting my mind on it. What if I put my whole mind on the act of driving? Driving doesn’t suck and isn’t frightening to me. It doesn’t make me upset or anxious. But it is what I am doing at that very second. Certainly paying close attention when one is driving is a responsible thing to do, yes? Focusing totally on that isn’t going to change the outcome of the meeting. But by damn, getting there not a bundle of nerves is going to help.

How does this apply to jealousy? IN THAT MOMENT, when you see your partners kiss, you feel a deep reaction. So, that individual moment sucks. Not trying to blow that off. But when you’ve excused yourself to go to the bathroom because you’ve had too much coffee, you’re not experiencing seeing your partner kiss someone. You’re peeing. Never whistle while you’re pissing. Bring your mind to what you’re actually doing in the moment. This helps remove the possibility of a snowball effect when you start thinking about situations you really aren’t in charge of.

Is this easy? Not really. It takes a lot of practice. I still find it an amazing tool to help me when I’m trying to be logical about anything going on in my life and keeping stress from getting to me.

Finding out the things that make you feel loved and asking for that

You mention that you’re getting verbal assurances you are loved. That’s cool. A lot of people find that they feel loved and cared for whent they get verbal assurances. Is that what really works best for you? Maybe you need something else and aren’t aware of it enough to articulate it. Find out.

Try a little exercise and spend about fifteen minutes completing this in as many ways as possible:

I feel most loved when________________.

One of the things you’ll find is a pattern. For me, it’s little acts of service. Bringing me a cup of coffee makes me feel all warm inside, easy and dumb as that is. We all have our quirks. Make sure you really know what yours are so you can ask for that thing.

Sometimes, you just don’t like how you feel

I’m the last person in the world to say that you should suck up an unhappy relationship. But sometimes you get feelings out of nowhere that don’t make sense to you. Being able to tolerate them is not a horrible thing. Again, not advocating any sort of Patient Griselda here. That’s nonsense. But sometimes we Just Don’t Make Sense. People sometimes don’t, dammit. Life would be a lot easier for me if we did!

However you slice it, jealousy sucks to experience and I hope that something here will work out to help you get more centered and deal.

Cheers,

Mama Java

You Might Like:

Unbundling

Goddess of Java — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 13:00:30 +0000

Guest column by Vrimj today!

Suggestion for Married Couples moving from monogamy to polyamory:

Unbundle.

A lot of the newbie mistakes that hurt everyone in the poly world come from married couples who consider themselves a package deal, in part because they consider themselves a package.

When businesses try to sell me bundled services, say the TV, phone, internet deals out there, the chances are that only one of those things is actually driving my business (in this case it is internet for me) something else might be neutral or maybe nice to have (TV for me) and something else might actually be something I don’t want and dislike having but will put up with to get a better deal on what I want (for me, the landline phone, I hate them)

Yea, when couples sell themselves as a bundle the effect is likely to be the same. Someone might be thrilled to get TV and Internet, but it is unlikely that they are going to feel exactly the same way about them.

It is more likely that the reaction will be, ok this is something that comes with the thing I really want and makes it easier to get.
And that SUCKS from both sides. I know I did it. Oh my did it suck.

I suggest instead you date as individuals. Yea you aren’t sharing a “customer base” but you know what? You are much more likely to have enthusiastic “customers” who really are in to you as a result. If someone happens to be a shared partner you can have the assurance it is because they wanted what each of you had to offer.

How to do it-

Don’t start looking right away. Yea really. Put down the OK Cupid profile.

Instead start thinking about how you work as a relationship. I suggest you do this by looking at your calendars. If you don’t have calendars write down the reasons you don’t and/or keep one for a few weeks.

Go through and look at each event and roughly classify it as fun or nonfun. Then add if it was shared or solo. If it was solo add who was doing it.

Go though and sum up each category and look at the numbers.

Now (and only now) ask yourself, are you used to having fun separately?

If you are not start here. There is a lot to get used to in polyamory but goodness knows you don’t need to add to it. Getting used to having fun separately so you don’t pile that on top of all the other stuff.

If you are not regularly doing fun apart (say at least 15% of your fun) work on that first, it will make the rest of the adjustments easier because you will have something to compare them to.

Also having fun apart doing things that are not really mutual interests can make the next step, finding interesting people to date, a lot easier!

Unbundling

Used by permission

Vrimj disdains twee bios…

You Might Like:

Looking Vanilla and the Law in Polyamory

Goddess of Java — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:00:56 +0000

Hi Ms. Java,

A friend of mine is having difficulty with his ex wife. He’s in an open relationship with a married woman (who’s husband knows), and he is concerned that his ex’s new love may be hurting her and maybe even his kids. He wants to ask the courts for more, or even full custody, but is worried that old traditions might make him look bad. Specifically, there are old biases against men, and against atypical relationships.

Do you or any of your readers have experience with a tricky legal situation and their polyamory? Do you have any tips on making an open, polyamorous relationship, appear more vanilla to the mainstream?

For the tricky legal situation part?

Your friend needs to have a good lawyer and follow that lawyer’s advice. I am not a lawyer. Even my readers who are lawyers (yes there are some) will be quite careful to point out that if they say something online, it is not meant to be interpreted as specific legal advice in a specific case.

If he does not have a poly-friendly lawyer, he might want to check with the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom. They have a Kink Aware Professionals directory that would be a good jumping-off place for finding a professional. You might also want to forward your friend the Guideline for Custody Disputes from the same site.

Since I have not dealt with custody issues much, but I know a lot of my readers have, I do invite my readers to share their experiences. You guys will give much better advice and relate your experiences better than I can.

If you really want to look for advice on how to look vanilla, I’m definitely your gal! Now I don’t do it as an act, mind. I am, for realsies, pretty vanilla, boring and normal except that I’m poly. That doesn’t show unless someone is paying close attention. Few do! For the record, I do not not not think appearing “normal” is in any way a moral imperative or necessarily the world’s most desirable thing to do. I am answering a direct question, that’s all!

Tips for appearing vanilla

Your appearance is your first step. What you’re shooting for is to appear according to a TV version of respectable middle class. Like I said, I don’t think this is necessarily a moral imperative, or even “good” particularly, but this is how to do it.

Dress well—This does not mean to dress up all the time unless that’s to one’s personal taste. Overdressing can be almost as bad as underdressing if you’re going for that vanilla look. It does mean making a series of choices that do tend towards the generic. Choose a plain t-shirt over one that has a slogan. Clothes should always be clean, well-mended, well-fitting, and unwrinkled.

Be well-groomed—Beards neat and trimmed, fingernails clean and short or neatly manicured if you desire. Hair neatly trimmed with no color that’s blatantly artificial. Subdued makeup if you wear it.

Do not leave overtly sexual materials around in public areas of the house - Porn should be locked in the toy box along with the toys. It should be inaccessible except to the consenting adults that will be using it. Since I’m mostly vanilla but make no special effort to appear so, my household violates this a bit. The Prince is a fantasy artist and we have a nude he’s done hanging in the dining room. If there were custody questions or we were concerned about CPS, mild and non-sexual as the picture is, the fairy isn’t wearing anything, so it would come down.

Keep the house and yard tidy - Hey, I know. Tedious. But you’re going for a certain respectable look, and tidy=respectable in most people’s eyes. Sorry about that. You don’t have to be Martha Stewart. Just throw the trash away, don’t let tools pile up, and mow your lawn regularly.

The second step is behavioral. Once you’ve made a certain impression, behavior will follow up on that and reinforce it. Then “weird” grace notes that indicate you’re polyamorous are minimized a bit.

Moderate speech—Calm tones, no swearing. Speak with the best diction and grammar you can manage. Minimize strong regional accents when out of region¹if you’re a good enough actor to pull it off. If you don’t believe this can affect how you’re perceived, all I can do is refer you to My Fair Lady and move on.

Moderate relationship interaction—This one is tricky because some people would say that you need to pretend not to be involved at all. If you’re doing the other stuff, believe you me, this will slip under the radar. You know at least one affectionate old married couple, I’m sure. You’ll see them holding hands or giving the occasional kiss on the cheek in public. Keep your public affection to that level.

Refrain from discussing personal matters – I suppose it should go without saying that one should not wave the poly flag. But the minute one supposes that, it becomes clear that it doesn’t go without saying at all. I love Miss Manners’ approach to polyamory and how to handle it. Be yourself, be polite, be kind and act with puzzled surprise to personal questions. Friends, this works wonders on so many levels.

Be respectful- Since your friend is a man and you were concerned about how he is perceived (being poly and all), he could do well not to look like a playa. This one is going to be hard to counteract if he has already developed a bad reputation, and I’m sorry about that. But the courtesy route is never a bad choice in behavior (male or female), and in the long run may help a lot. If he follows some other advice about community involvement, it’s going to become patently obvious that he’s not spending all his time chasing tail and that he’s really just a regular guy.

Be a community member!!!! Okay, here we get to something I advise no matter whether you’re trying to appear vanilla or not. You can do this with piercings and a green Mohawk just as easily as in a plain t-shirt, French manicure and capris. In my own studies of alternative groups, it seems to me that the worst witch hunts tend to be against groups of people that hold themselves very separate from their local communities. I know poly people are short on time, but this is really important. Be part of your local community, especially at the service level. Show up to town meetings. Volunteer to coach your kid’s soccer team. Organize a food drive. Participate in the PTA. If your tastes run that way (mine don’t) join a church. Unitarian is often fairly poly-friendly and not too doctrinaire. Polyamory’s best chance at acceptance on all levels is going to be when people see the polyamorous as vital members of society doing good stuff. Be the guy in the neighborhood that shovels an elderly person’s walk, or is quick to bandage a kid’s skinned knee. Be a credit to your kink.

I admit that I am slightly uncomfortable with “seeming” rather than “being”. I look vanilla because I am pretty vanilla. I just happen to be lucky enough that many of my rather pedestrian, middle-class tastes don’t have me standing out unless I make a specific choice to do so. I don’t like it that if you’re somehow different, the crab bucket is going to try to drag you back down, but I’m at something of a loss at how to change that other than being a visibly good person no matter “weird” you are.

____________________________________

¹ I actually do this for real and on purpose for professional purposes. Yankees can’t seem to hear the difference between an uneducated twang and my refined Tidewater accent, so in an effort not to sound like Daisy Duke in front of a classroom, I speak accent-neutral professionally.

You Might Like:

Disclosure When On the Prowl

Goddess of Java — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:00:57 +0000

Ok.

So, I am a poly mama, in an open relationship that has its own nuances and complexities, like any other relationship of any flavor.

Dilemma, nutshell:

I have for the first time opened an OK Cupid account. I have not gone on any dates yet, but I have responded to many potential suitors.

Am I obliged to let my partner know that I am on the market and actively looking? Or am I only obliged to let him know once I have a date or develop a relationship with someone I might meet?

Lemme see… Consulting the Universal Polyamory Manual, Chapter 231, paragraph C, I note that one is absolutely obligated to explain all intentional actions on pain of having one’s polyamory status revoked and being called a dirty, dirty swinger.

* Grin * Okay, I know you don’t buy that.

While I don’t know that you’re obligated to,¹ I think it’d make sense to discuss your intentions with your partner. What are your partner’s comfort levels here? If you haven’t asked, do. It is my opinion that there are few downsides to talking about this sort of thing. If your partner has insecurities that need working through, better now than later. If your partner doesn’t like to be surprised out of nowhere with stuff, then knowing you’re looking keeps your partner well in the loop.

This is not to say that one has to inform a partner of every flirtation, interest or whatever, if you haven’t agreed to do such a thing. That you’re even asking about this says that you guys are still finding your feet about how to handle looking for new relationships, so it’s not like you really have a deep feel for what your partner wants to know and when. That’s okay, mind. So look at it this way, there’s less of a downside to volunteering lots of information than otherwise. It’s a good way to build trust. It’s a great way to build closeness. I mean, part of intimacy is letting partners know what’s going on in your head, yes? Besides, if what you get is a response along the lines of, “Hon, I really don’t care what you’re up to on a dating site. Lemme know when you intend to meet someone in person,” then you’ve got the information you really need.

Now, I’ve given you all this advice and I’m reviewing my own relationships. I do have an OKC profile meeself. All my partners know it. I haven’t made a specific effort to look for a partner in… Gosh… It’s been many years. I might mention it if I were to do so, but active looking is not my normal M.O. and I think my partners would want to know why the change in behavior – less from feeling insecure, but just because they’re interested in what I’m thinking/feeling/needing.

I hope you’ll forgive me for speculating, but is your real concern that you’re worried about how your partner is going to react and you would rather put off discussing the matter? If it is, screw your courage to the sticking place and go ahead and bring it up now. Get the discussions out in the open, because they obviously need to happen. Yes, this can be hard and vulnerable. Totally. But you’re building a good foundation of communication and trust that will serve you well in the future and make your relationships just that much more satisfying.

And… I just noticed that this post goes out on Valentine’s Day. Happy Valentine’s Day to those of you who celebrate it. And for those who don’t? It’s still okay to tell your partner(s), friends and family that you love them!

________________________________________

¹ Not knowing your specific agreements and all.

You Might Like: